ABG: Top Gear -- BMW M3 vs. Toyota Prius fuel economy race track competition (video)

[funkybunk]

Personally, I don't agree with hybrids. We have been using EV's for probably about 100 years now, and we have proven with the now gone EV1 that we were ready for full EV's. Unfortunately, auto makers would rather kiss butt to the oil industry, and the way they can satisfy consumers and oil companies at once? Hybrids. This though, is why I hate Top gear. He constantly bashes the G-Wiz (Also known as the Riva) and clumps it with the majority of EV's today. Who can blame him, though? Nowadays, even smaller companies not affected by the oil companies are selling NEV's that get 40MPH at the most. Consider the Zap Xebra, that has a 6.7 HP motor and will get 40 MPH if it is only having to carry one person. The EV1 and the Rav4 EV went extremely fast and were much more attractive than EV's today.

[tjts1]

He bashes the Prius because thats what it deserves in a county where you can buy any number of equally efficient diesel and gasoline vehicles that cost half as much. As for "show's lead host is known for bashing anything "green"... Oh really now?

YouTube - Top Gear: Vegetable Oil for Diesel

YouTube - Top Gear Bmw 5 Series Diesel Vs Petrol

YouTube - Top Gear - 800 miles on 1 tank in Audi A8 (Part 1 of 2)

YouTube - Top Gear - 800 miles on 1 tank in Audi A8 (Part 2 of 2)

[RH77]

Originally Posted by tjts1

Oh really now?

Still, I say, "Rubbish"

Has Mr. Clarkson praised his Mum's Honda Jazz/Fit for it's funtionality, handling, or convenience? No -- only that it goes 340 miles between fill ups before the Audi mileage challenge.

The BMW 330d -- if it was slow and gave off the fewest emissions in it's class while pampering his English ego, would he have given it high marks? No.

Power. Speed. TV appeal.

That's all that he (and his producers) are interested in. Whether it's an oil burner or a mock hypermiling experiment, it draws the attention of the viewer. The Buggati Veyron seems to gain quite the attention -- as does the Koenigsegg CCX. How about the Porsche 911 GT3 RS? All leaders in FE, I'm sure.

Don't be fooled. We subcribe to auto mags and fixate upon the tellie to be dazzled by Lamborghini Gallardos -- not Chevy Cobalts. Even if the Lambo was powered by children's tears it would be praised.

In the essence of full disclosure -- Top Gear is one of my favorite programs. It's a clever show, the format is entertaining, and the vehicles are unique and often not available in the U.S.

I've just seen it enough to know Clarkson's position on low-BHP conveyances.

RH77

[tjts1]

I think Jeremy Clarkson has done more to promote fuel efficient practical vehicles than any other person on earth. More importantly he is willing to stick his neck out and chastise a car for the worst sin of all: being boring.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xHJuG5FGRxg

Lets face it. Even the most rediculous supercar is less wasteful than an SUV.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=U3EvsrMaj6U

YouTube - Clarkson's Car Years - The New Romantics part 1

[RH77]

Originally Posted by tjts1

I think Jeremy Clarkson has done more to promote fuel efficient practical vehicles than any other person on earth. More importantly he is willing to stick his neck out and chastise a car for the worst sin of all: being boring.

OK, ok -- First I won't take points off for the first 2 broken YouTube links.

But yes, Mr C. has indeed chastised boring vehicles and commended those that were thrifty and exciting during which the 80's were even more harsh in the UK than Stateside "Reaganomics" and Stagflation.

Further, I'll admit that the Golf GTI Mk I is the singlemost vehicle to spark a worldwide passion for "Hot Hatches" -- to set the benchmark for small, and exciting transport. It took Honda's Sport Compact revolution of the 90's to have an impact here -- not since the glory days of the 50's Chevy and Ford rivalries had we seen such a resurgence.

Without the use of video references, I want to use your examples' definition of "boring" to make a few statements...

The U.S. took the Opel Caddett and made a compact, rear-drive compact that boringly saved the 80's middle-class in Chevette form. Apparently, the UK received a much better version. We even got a Diesel that provided it's own Bond-like smokescreen.

The Ford XR3 from the video morphed the Ford EXP into a whole new brand: Merkur, and its hot XR4Ti. Quite fast and feature-laiden for the day. But, they shot craps on reliabilty and the marque disappeared. Not boring, but not reliable. Instead, North America received the Escort, with the most "exciting" showing up late to the party in '03 as the ZX2 S/R. I supposed the Mazda-derived Probe fit in the mix at some point, but not like what the rest of the World was offered.

My single point is that the show would despise anything thrifty and "uninspiring". I can only imagine what they would say about the likes of a Metro -- but we've seen the FE it can produce and the pleasure of its simplicity.

To be truthful, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. I'm very much a car enthusiast, and boring cars are, indeed, not my cup of tea. I haven't owned a "boring" car in my 14-vehicle history, but I sure have rented several.

I will admit, however, that the bias of the show is shifted to performance-oriented vehicles, unless British Society or History dicatates a demand otherwise. On a recent program, they comdemned their homemade Diesel fuel, simply because it was, well, Diesel by accident (they were hoping for Ethanol). Ask them if they would take the M3 or 330d, and the BMW of choice is obvious.

The conclusion is the lack of a consistent, FE-centric respect: boring or not.

Exclusion: I just watched a recently recorded version, where the team attemped a cross-town sprint across London in the morning rush. The bicyclist made it first, followed by the speedboat down the Thames, The Stig on mass transit, and May in an SUV. They do redeem themselves from time to time...

-Rick

[tjts1]

The videos are still available but the no embedding setting on youtube clashes with this forum's automatic video setting for hyper links.

[fshagan]

Europeans must not care about the environment; they have been using dirty diesel engines for years that can't pass the smog laws in this country, and then they lecture us about carbon emissions.

I can buy a Prius and get 54 mpg; I can't buy any of the diesels that get that high simply because they are dirty, filthy, polluting destroyers of the planet (or something like that; I'll have to ask our Governator). Top Gear's audience does have a choice, so the trashing of the Prius can be seen as entertaining at least. For those in the US, its a non-sequitar ... equal to saying "Why diet when you can go to the moon and be 1/6th the weight" when you really CAN'T go to the moon!

VW and BMW worked on getting diesels approved for the US, and VW is supposed to have a Rabbit/Golf to be sold her by the end of the year, but they have already pushed back the release date as they try to make it clean enough.

I hope they are successful because bio-diesel is much easier to produce than ethanol or hydrogen.

[sdprius858]

I'll take 2 please, one to drive and one to convert to an EV

YouTube - World's Smallest Car

[RH77]

tjts1: I took the page source and watch the vids...

The Audi A8: I saw this vid about a year or so ago. Clarkson's hypermiling experiment sparked the following quote,

"It was the most mentally exhausting thing I've ever done"...

This statement (from the celebrity uttering its words) should be a testament to the Eco-Driving/Hypermiling community. He has raced 24-hour circuits and has attempted a modified design of an existing vehicle to crack the elusive 200 mph mark! A high level of precision and concentration is at hand on nearly every trip we make. Safety should result (OK continuing to watch...)

Ahh, the Prius. I really don't know what to make of this. It has been argued at length in other forum locations, so I won't touch it. I'll continue to drive my gasser until it grenades...and then repair it.

Alrighty: the Focus 5-door argument. What the heck happened to the Station Wagon. I was likely the last generation to partake in riding in a rear-facing seat (ask any kid these days). The vehicle: a 91' Ford Taurus GL Wagon belonging to my friend's family. Of course it was akward, but we never tossed our cookies. We stared-down the drivers behind us, and saw where we had been. Maybe kids would respect their elders more these days if they had seen -- where they had been.

The SUV replaced it in the hierarchichal status of driving existence. Even a Minivan was more convenient. Mark my words -- I think a resurgence is upon us. The P50? Likely not. But a slight pardigm shift would be nice.

RH77

[landspeed]

Originally Posted by fshagan

Europeans must not care about the environment; they have been using dirty diesel engines for years that can't pass the smog laws in this country, and then they lecture us about carbon emissions.

I can buy a Prius and get 54 mpg; I can't buy any of the diesels that get that high simply because they are dirty, filthy, polluting destroyers of the planet (or something like that; I'll have to ask our Governator). Top Gear's audience does have a choice, so the trashing of the Prius can be seen as entertaining at least. For those in the US, its a non-sequitar ... equal to saying "Why diet when you can go to the moon and be 1/6th the weight" when you really CAN'T go to the moon!

VW and BMW worked on getting diesels approved for the US, and VW is supposed to have a Rabbit/Golf to be sold her by the end of the year, but they have already pushed back the release date as they try to make it clean enough.

I hope they are successful because bio-diesel is much easier to produce than ethanol or hydrogen.

The beginning of this is hating on europe, the later part is saying that you want diesels - so I assume the first part is tongue-in-cheek.

Anyway, for what it is worth, Japan also has diesels, and modern diesels have good emissions and, even under load, don't smell when you drive behind them. Older diesels on the other hand are a different story. Under load you can't actually breathe properly if you are in a car behind a diesel vehicle. I once drove behind a Ford Escort van that had something wrong with the diesel engine. I nearly vomited but overtook it as soon as I could.

In terms of smog / carbon emissions and so on:

Smog - it is not very nice. If you suddenly switch off all cars, then smog disappears in 3 days, and everything is fine. It is a short term menace that is bad for people's health. If we get to a stage where everyone is being killed by smog, we will switch off the cars and be fine in a few days time.

CO2 - also not very nice. If you suddenly switch off all the cars, then it lasts for a long time. It also causes global warming. It is probably the worst type of pollutant as it has global, and long-term effects. If we ever get to a stage where people are being killed by runaway global warming, we will switch off the cars, and it will be too late, and we will all die anyway!

And that is why I'm into hypermiling - because I can reduce my CO2 output when driving my car. Saving money is another plus of course!. I don't mind doing extreme hypermiling including repeated EOCing because I drive old cars that don't even come with a catalytic convertor But... I do use a wideband O2 sensor to keep the fuel mixture stoichometric anyway so it makes little difference to my HC emissions.

About the BMW vs Prius thing... The BMW engine was 'idling' as mentioned above (also drafting), and therefore was probably running stoichometric at 14.7:1 ratio. The Prius was maxed out, meaning it would be running rich all the time to prevent detonation, so probably running 10:1 for almost all of the race. Also the gear ratios are different so the BMW was probably running at a much lower RPM than the Prius.