04-07-2021, 12:34 PM
|
#1 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macon,GA
Posts: 176
Thanks: 124
Thanked 43 Times in 34 Posts
|
Another Altenator thread-smart charging using tilt sensor
I am thinking of a idea to control battery charging with an incinometer ( tilt sensor).
Idea is to only allow the altenator to charge the battery when car is going down hill or braking. It could be adjusted to a certain grade.
This is what I want-
Going down hill- charging
Using brakes - charging
Going uphill- not charging
Going on level land-not charging
Sitting at redlight- not charging
Voltage drops below 12.4- charging
I think I can do this with an ardunio and a tilt sensor, along with a relay to cut the field current on the altenator.
I don't want to use the brake light switch to trigger charging because then it would charge while waiting at red light, I would rather it only charge when there is energy going to waste.
I believe I might get a warning light on the dash when it's not charging, but that might not be a bug, but a feature. It will allow me to see when it's charging or not.
My question is do Tilt sensors sense tilt when the car is breaking?
Only fault I see is car would charge while at a redlight and facing down hill.
|
|
|
Today
|
|
|
Other popular topics in this forum...
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 12:50 PM
|
#2 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,692
Thanks: 4,307
Thanked 4,460 Times in 3,426 Posts
|
Nice idea!
An inclinometer should be able to detect loss of forward momentum and/or slope.
Of course, just because you're pointed downhill doesn't mean you've got free energy to spare. Most hills around here aren't steep enough to even maintain speed. Your alternator will spend half of the time on since half of the time you're tilted upwards, and half downwards.
Perhaps you could have a threshold at which it engages, representing either a hill steep enough, or engine deceleration great enough that it's worthwhile to engage the alternator.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
|
|
04-07-2021, 01:54 PM
|
#3 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macon,GA
Posts: 176
Thanks: 124
Thanked 43 Times in 34 Posts
|
My thought is I will adjust the angle of the sensor to match the grade I want it to be active.
I found this sensor which uses a metal ball. I'm sure it will activate under hard breaking-
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/10289
but I fear the ball may vibrate on and off the switch.
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 01:56 PM
|
#4 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macon,GA
Posts: 176
Thanks: 124
Thanked 43 Times in 34 Posts
|
I would also periodically fully charge my battery to prevent sulfation
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 02:01 PM
|
#5 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macon,GA
Posts: 176
Thanks: 124
Thanked 43 Times in 34 Posts
|
Just had an idea! I could program the ardunio to only charge the first 15-20 seconds the brake light is on. It would be rare for one to brake for a longer time than that.
This would allow me set the tilt sensor more aggresivally to only charge on steeper hills, but still allow charging even with mild braking.
I would also allow me to use an solid state tilt sensor
Last edited by Vwbeamer; 04-07-2021 at 02:10 PM..
Reason: add more info
|
|
|
04-07-2021, 02:19 PM
|
#6 (permalink)
|
High Altitude Hybrid
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Gunnison, CO
Posts: 2,075
Thanks: 1,128
Thanked 583 Times in 462 Posts
|
Very interesting idea. I've had the idea of using a microswitch on the accelerator to turn it on when the accelerator is not being depressed. But I liked your idea since that would turn it on only when decelerating, so not at idle.
Except it could turn on if stopped on a downhill incline. But that's not necessarily something that's going to happen often, depressing on where you live and drive.
The only other idea would be to have the alternator turn off when there's no speed from a speed sensor.
Of course if you add a start-stop system then charging at idle, even stopped on a downhill grade, wouldn't be a problem
__________________
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Isaac Zachary For This Useful Post:
|
|
04-07-2021, 02:30 PM
|
#7 (permalink)
|
Human Environmentalist
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,692
Thanks: 4,307
Thanked 4,460 Times in 3,426 Posts
|
Accelerator switch is a better idea, except the stopped/idle problem.
You want the alternator to come on during coasting too, not just braking, so even slight deceleration should trigger the alternator to come on.
You'd ruin a battery quickly on any highway travel where you're spending more than 10 minutes without going downhill or braking.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
|
|
04-07-2021, 02:46 PM
|
#8 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,747
Thanks: 75
Thanked 576 Times in 426 Posts
|
Seems like a good idea.
I'd assume it would register deceleration the same as a downward slope. You know what assumptions are worth, though.
Not sure why you wouldn't want it charging at a light. Yes, it would use a bit more gas...but at that point, 100% of your gas is going to waste. At least you'd be getting a bit of something back for it. Killing the engine would kill the alternator - and everything else - from wasting gas. Coasting with the engine on would amount to the same thing.
You could get creative and use the throttle position sensor as part of the information the Arduino is looking at. Could take it farther and figure out how to make the alternator pout out lower voltage (12.6-13) when at a light or engine-on coasting, go full ham when braking.
Personally don't see "regen braking" worth the effort with a regular alternator and a 12v lead battery...they just don't accept a quick, high-current charge easily. The right kind of lithium might. Bigger lead would accept a charge faster, but then you're carrying more weight.
YMMV.
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to Stubby79 For This Useful Post:
|
|
04-07-2021, 04:02 PM
|
#9 (permalink)
|
Master EcoModder
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 28,397
Thanks: 8,021
Thanked 8,837 Times in 7,293 Posts
|
Quote:
My question is do Tilt sensors sense tilt when the car is breaking?
|
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inclinometer#Factors_which_influence_the_use_of_in clinometers
Quote:
Factors which influence the use of inclinometers
(Overall accuracy varies depending on the type of tilt sensor (or inclinometer) and technology used)
Gravity
Temperature (drift), zero offset, linearity, vibration, shock, cross-axis sensitivity, acceleration/deceleration.
A clear line of sight between the user and the measured point is needed.
A well defined object is required to obtain the maximum precision.
The angle measurement precision and accuracy is limited to slightly better than one arcsec.
|
__________________
.
.Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster
____________________
.
.“You belong to Universe” -- the voice in Bucky Fuller's head
|
|
|
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
|
|
04-07-2021, 06:08 PM
|
#10 (permalink)
|
EcoModding Apprentice
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Macon,GA
Posts: 176
Thanks: 124
Thanked 43 Times in 34 Posts
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79
Seems like a good idea.
I'd assume it would register deceleration the same as a downward slope. You know what assumptions are worth, though.
Not sure why you wouldn't want it charging at a light. Yes, it would use a bit more gas...but at that point, 100% of your gas is going to waste. At least you'd be getting a bit of something back for it. Killing the engine would kill the alternator - and everything else - from wasting gas. Coasting with the engine on would amount to the same thing.
You could get creative and use the throttle position sensor as part of the information the Arduino is looking at. Could take it farther and figure out how to make the alternator pout out lower voltage (12.6-13) when at a light or engine-on coasting, go full ham when braking.
Personally don't see "regen braking" worth the effort with a regular alternator and a 12v lead battery...they just don't accept a quick, high-current charge easily. The right kind of lithium might. Bigger lead would accept a charge faster, but then you're carrying more weight.
YMMV.
|
Thanks for your input. you got me thinking.
I think there will be a pay off for smart charging. The purpose of letting the battery go down to 12.4 is because at the lower voltage it can accept more current. I would consider a lithium battery after the lead acid battery dies. A .3-.7 mpg gain would be worth the sub $60 cost to me. Truthfully, at current gas prices few mods make financial sense. There is also the benefit of reduced pollution from saving a few gallons.
I agree lithium offers more benefits, at a greater cost.
My main reason for not charging at lights is most cars made in last thirty years automatically control the throttle to handle loads at idle and a alternator charging a heavily discharged battery would be a noticeable load and burn more fuel.
But now you have made it really simple if don't mind charging at red lights. just hook a relay to brake switch to cut the field current except when braking. edit- or the accelerator switch idea.
That would be super simple. add in the tilt sensor in parallel with the brake light switch( diode to keep tilt sensor from turning on brake lights) so when one or both is activated, the relay gets power to energize the field windings.
|
|
|
|