Any Experience With HHO as a Combustion Enhancer?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by bryn

i would put a wind turbine on your steering wheel to power the hho generator

Now that's putting your money where your mouth is!

[Floordford]

Originally Posted by dcb

you cannot prove unicorns don't exist so you might as well spend your life trying to prove they exist. Plenty of people I trust have tried HHO and it failed.

I actually have the opposite experience. Someone I know built one, refined it, added instrumentation and was able to make noticeable gains in his 2009 Sentra. Thats how I know it takes some careful tuning. Because there are two crowds, love it and hate it. And I can only speculate the hate it crowd didn't get it dialed in just the way it needed to be for their specific needs.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

This is too dumb to respond to.

Oh, wait...

Care to point out specifically what you are insulting?

[Frank Lee]

I apologize if that seemed too harsh, but come on. I'm insulting blind faith in nonsense.

In how many decades? of screwing around with it, NOBODY has made a successful HHO system, success being defined as an actual fuel efficiency increase. Nobody.

It's like throwing a cup of red dye in the ocean and expecting it all to turn red... it's like shovelling your driveway with a teaspoon; you'll see some result, but not one that's any good or can be called a success.

There is a reason why GM, Ford, MIT, Argonne Natl Labs, GE, U of Washington, the U.S. military, EPA, and whoever else has not developed and claimed success with HHO. I'll give you a hint and say it isn't because they never heard of it.

I challenge you or anyone to provide evidence of a successful HHO system. Testimonials and anecdotes and prayers and wishful thinking are not admissable. Beyond that I'm not wasting any more time on it; search HHO here, or find out what the U.S. Govt. has to say about it (it is online), or find the Popular Mechanics tests of economy devices (online as well).

[Floordford]

A point that I have yet to see, ever, and it even escaped me, I wonder if because of the low production of these units and the fact that hydrogen is lighter than even helium its not making it into the cylinders. Take for instance a carbureted vehicle. Wouldn't some of that extremely light gas escape and just go straight up? Maybe thats why some arent getting good results, its more buoyant than air.

Popular Mechanics article
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...ileage/4276846
At the end he mentions his buddy was making gains and they are still testing. But in other PM articles he completely flames the idea of HHO. Which stinks because it seems that they arent testing different styles of systems or allowing outsiders to show that it does work. PM is going at it with an "it wont work" attitude. And they are getting the results they want to see. I know for some there is a placebo effect. A person never wants to think they got ripped off or taken. But some are having positive results. But nay sayers turn a def ear to those people so they can keep their negative position on the subject.

[Joenavy85]

Originally Posted by Floordford

But ive noticed that the majority of nay sayers havent built one of these units and gathered their own results.

So where are your tests that show it works? doing something over and over again expecting a different result is pretty close to the definition of insanity, test after test has shown that there is little (if any) merit to claims of HHO improving your mileage, if we do the same thing expecting anything different is just stupid and a waste of time, hence why this thread is in the corral. so many people come here and blab away about how it works so great from them, but they show nothing of what they actually did or any credible information or test results, as i said in my last post.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Floordford

I actually have the opposite experience. Someone I know built one, refined it, added instrumentation and was able to make noticeable gains in his 2009 Sentra. Thats how I know it takes some careful tuning.

Without a very careful process, how could you possibly know if it was the tuning or the hho? Without knowing how he measured the gains how do you know it is accurate?
What "careful tuning" are you referring to.

I think it is complete horse crap to hide behind "everyone else did it wrong" personally, You don't really know squat about it. What is the theory? How much will it improve mpg? What tunings are required and how have those variables been isolated?

If you can't say what the exact process is and how others should be able to repeat the experiment then I say you are full of crap when it comes to saying that everyone else did it wrong.

[Joenavy85]

i know what it needs dcb, it needs more cowbell

[Floordford]

Originally Posted by dcb

Without a very careful process, how could you possibly know if it was the tuning or the hho? Without knowing how he measured the gains how do you know it is accurate?
What "careful tuning" are you referring to.

I think it is complete horse crap to hide behind "everyone else did it wrong" personally, You don't really know squat about it. What is the theory? How much will it improve mpg? What tunings are required and how have those variables been isolated?

If you can't say what the exact process is and how others should be able to repeat the experiment then I say you are full of crap when it comes to saying that everyone else did it wrong.

It was on a bone stock Sentra so the only difference was the adjustments her made to his design. He used a Scanguage2 over several months. So yes I DO know how he measures his gains.

Tell me, how much do I know about electrolysis?

"How much will it improve MPG?" You are just wanting to argue at this point. Obviously it will be different for different cars and their owners driving styles.

The tuning I speak of is the design of the hydrogen cell. Different water mixes and additives will net different results. Also the maintenance and materials used will effect performance.

Its easy to say others did it wrong when so many are trying these for the first time with the idea that it wont work. Low and behold it didn't work because they are seeking to get the results they wanted. You can also take a new 2011 car that advertises 32 city MPG and only get 27-28MPG. Thats not uncommon.

This is a trial and error testing kind of project. Ill agree that there are scammers out there selling garbage plans and big promises.

[Joenavy85]

Originally Posted by Floordford

You can also take a new 2011 car that advertises 32 city MPG and only get 27-28MPG. Thats not uncommon.

Likewise you can take a Jeep the advertises 16 MPG and on a regular basis get 22-23 MPG, driving style alone can make a huge difference, you need to take the human element out and test it with a driver that's not even aware that there is a test going on. Most of the BS fuel saving devices "work" because the person driving is expecting a change and subconciously hypermiling the car.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Floordford

It was on a bone stock Sentra so the only difference was the adjustments her made to his design. He used a Scanguage2 over several months. So yes I DO know how he measures his gains.

There are MANY problems with that statement right there.... How much percentage increase did he see? And what month did he start, and finish, his test? And what did he use for a control?

Do you know why I ask these questions?

Originally Posted by Floordford

Tell me, how much do I know about electrolysis?

I know you believe hho works.

Originally Posted by Floordford

"How much will it improve MPG?" You are just wanting to argue at this point. Obviously it will be different for different cars and their owners driving styles.

No, I want to see some science, not wishful thinking. You say it does something to improve mpg, apparently without doing anything else to the car or driver. You have not provided ANY evidence to support your belief. What specifically do you think it does and what is the energy balance? Do the math/chemistry/thermodynamic analysis, show all work, let others review it. Right now you have a unicorn, with no supporting evidence except that your friend told you he saw a unicorn once.

Originally Posted by Floordford

The tuning I speak of is the design of the hydrogen cell. Different water mixes and additives will net different results. Also the maintenance and materials used will effect performance.

What about the tuning your friend with the sentra speaks of?

Originally Posted by Floordford

Its easy to say others did it wrong when so many are trying these for the first time with the idea that it wont work.

This is disingenuous, you don't know anything about everyone who has debunked hho. Newsflash, most things/ideas don't work (hence 99% perspiration). There are infinitely more bad ideas then good ones. Nothing is expected to work until it actually works. What is far more dangerous is wishful thinking, and squinting your eyes at the results convincing yourself that something actually worked, when it didn't.

Originally Posted by Floordford

Low and behold it didn't work because they are seeking to get the results they wanted. You can also take a new 2011 car that advertises 32 city MPG and only get 27-28MPG. Thats not uncommon.

You are using your faith in HHO to accuse a lot of people (some of whom I know) of gross incompetence. Meanwhile you don't have any specifics or theory to explain your faith in the first place, nor have you demonstrated very high testing standards yourself.

Originally Posted by Floordford

This is a trial and error testing kind of project.

You need to get good at testing then, and have a repeatable methodology and some idea of how accurate your method of measuring is, and a control.

Originally Posted by Floordford

Ill agree that there are scammers out there selling garbage plans and big promises.

That would be 100% of people selling anything related to HHO at this point.

Don't believe every random post you read on the internet FF, especially ridiculous claims. And especially don't go calling those claims science.