Battling the non-believers

[oil pan 4]

Once you go past 31'' price and weight go up drasticly.

I run 31'' yokohama AT-S (all terrain) and they are over kill for what I need.

[ecomodded]

Originally Posted by pete c

I had a fun afternoon of going back and forth with a handful of guys on a ford ranger board

It is amazing how basic physics seems to be beyond the comprehension of most folks.

Those big 37" swampers weigh between 150 and 200lbs depending on tread, without the rims add 40 lbs for rims times that by 4 and you have minimum 800 pounds of spinning mass that wants to resist the breaks. I bet the big wheeled lifted 4x4's at hwy speed stop no quicker than a 1950's Edsel.

[Slow_s10]

This whole conversation makes me laugh. I can see the arguments on both sides but I think some folks missed the point. He was not saying that driving a lifted truck is inherently unsafe, just that EOC is no worse. And not that it matters but for me EOC would make absolutely no discernible difference how my truck handles or brakes... Granted my truck has manual steering and manual brakes from the factory.

Oh and while I am not an offroader I have to stick up for my S10 brothers... whoever said S10s were never meant to be lifted or go off road please look up the Chevy S10 Zr2. They are lifted sitting on 31s from the factory and are very capable off road trucks in stock trim. Oh and they use the same size axles and brakes as the non Zr2 4wd trucks, so...

[Miller88]

I have a Jeep Cherokee with a 3'' lift and 31'' mudders too, does that make me a bad person? I also off road with it 4 or 5 times a year. I could go bigger lift and bigger tires ... but that would be unreasonable; it can do everything I need it to as it sits.

Why does it have a 3'' lift? The 3.5'' lift springs for the rear were cheaper than the OEM when I had to replace the sagging original springs. The front springs were free. Shocks were cheap (used take off from another larger vehicle).

It's a good, reliable, vehicle. I use it to tow and haul quite frequently. Something I can't do with my focus. The only time the 31'' mud tires are put on is when I'm off roading. Right now, it sits on the stock sized 225-75/15 tires.

I try to drive it reasonable, but it's a lifted vehicle with the aerodynamics of a brick and an engine that resembles your average 60s tractor engine. I never bring it above 60 with the little tires and 55 with the bigger tires.

I also have a Focus that I can routinely pull 45MPG out of.

What's the difference between a Taco and a Ranger? They're both body-on-frame minitrucks. I'm sure the Taco came with a better transmission ... other than that - 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

[TheEnemy]

Originally Posted by ecomodded

Those big 37" swampers weigh between 150 and 200lbs depending on tread, without the rims add 40 lbs for rims times that by 4 and you have minimum 800 pounds of spinning mass that wants to resist the breaks. I bet the big wheeled lifted 4x4's at hwy speed stop no quicker than a 1950's Edsel.

Not if they are on a truck that was originally meant for hauling and towing of large loads, the brakes on them are very capable to begin with, or if the owner upgraded the brakes (very rare) to be able to handle the extra rotating mass and leverage.

But yes as the OP was stating EOC is safer than a lifted truck, its just that the stoping distance may though not often actually be better than stock. Expecially when compaired to the cheap *** no grip tires that come from the factory.

[basjoos]

Originally Posted by Slow_s10

He was not saying that driving a lifted truck is inherently unsafe

While driving a lifted truck is fine offroad, driving a lifted truck on the road is inherently unsafe for any car drivers nearby since their lifting sets the truck's bumper at about the car's window height, overriding any crash protection built into the car's door. Rather than hitting the metal frame of the car, the car's window and the driver's head are the first things hit by a lifted truck t-boning a car at an intersection. A semi tractor trailer has a dropped bumper to keep cars from under riding them in a collision, but a lifted truck has none of this type of safety equipment.

[Slow_s10]

Not a truck that is raised a reasonable amount for what you really plan on using it for. For example My good friend used to have a Sonoma that we raised 2 inches and put some slightly larger tires on. All said and done the bumper maybe sat 3" higher than it did from the factory and still well within the door area of any average passenger car.

Trust me I know the kinds of trucks that you are talking about... the ones where I am eyeball level with their tailpipes. The same ones that have usually never seen a speck of dirt under their tires. But for what it's worth this discussion was concerning the saftey of the truck being driven not the other cars around them. Meaning how likely are you to cause an accident because of the reduiced performance of your truck while EOCing or being lifted, not how fatal that accident is going to be to the cars around you. Besides those folks are the exception to the rule the majority of people who lift their trucks don't take it to those extremes.

The sad part is you guys have me here defending lifted trucks when I was originally coming to defend engine off coasting. If you are coasting in a manual transmission equiped vehicle as long as you really understand how it is going to handle and brake when there is no power steering and if you do run out of vacuum and have to brake manually. I have no doubt in my mind that it is no more dangerous than driving with the engine running.

[TheEnemy]

Originally Posted by basjoos

While driving a lifted truck is fine offroad, driving a lifted truck on the road is inherently unsafe for any car drivers nearby since their lifting sets the truck's bumper at about the car's window height, overriding any crash protection built into the car's door. Rather than hitting the metal frame of the car, the car's window and the driver's head are the first things hit by a lifted truck t-boning a car at an intersection. A semi tractor trailer has a dropped bumper to keep cars from under riding them in a collision, but a lifted truck has none of this type of safety equipment.

Yep, I have considered installing a removable drop bumper on the front of mine for that reason. We have a couple of vehicles here that their front bumper is above the protection of my only slightly lifted Jeep. We tend to refer to them as Mall Crawlers.

[TheEnemy]

Originally Posted by Slow_s10

Not a truck that is raised a reasonable amount for what you really plan on using it for. For example My good friend used to have a Sonoma that we raised 2 inches and put some slightly larger tires on. All said and done the bumper maybe sat 3" higher than it did from the factory and still well within the door area of any average passenger car.

Trust me I know the kinds of trucks that you are talking about... the ones where I am eyeball level with their tailpipes. The same ones that have usually never seen a speck of dirt under their tires. But for what it's worth this discussion was concerning the saftey of the truck being driven not the other cars around them. Meaning how likely are you to cause an accident because of the reduiced performance of your truck while EOCing or being lifted, not how fatal that accident is going to be to the cars around you. Besides those folks are the exception to the rule the majority of people who lift their trucks don't take it to those extremes.

The sad part is you guys have me here defending lifted trucks when I was originally coming to defend engine off coasting. If you are coasting in a manual transmission equiped vehicle as long as you really understand how it is going to handle and brake when there is no power steering and if you do run out of vacuum and have to brake manually. I have no doubt in my mind that it is no more dangerous than driving with the engine running.

I think the highest lift in the off road club that is still driven on the street is 6" and 37" tires, which puts the bumper about one foot above stock. The trailer queens arent much higher with 40+ tires. Any higher and it would start to become too unstable for the trails.

[ecomodded]

Originally Posted by TheEnemy

Not if they are on a truck that was originally meant for hauling and towing of large loads, the brakes on them are very capable to begin with, or if the owner upgraded the brakes (very rare) to be able to handle the extra rotating mass and leverage.

But yes as the OP was stating EOC is safer than a lifted truck, its just that the stoping distance may though not often actually be better than stock. Expecially when compaired to the cheap *** no grip tires that come from the factory.

I built a heep cherokee 3-4 years ago,put a 4.5 Full lift kit with all the proper parts including extended sway bar end links, with 31" tires the truck was a little wavy in the corners but not too bad,it stopped normally but the tires were only 31" 1.5 inches larger diameter than stock, barely any weight difference. In all fairness i have never driven a truck with 37-42" tires but i do expect it to ride poorly/dangerous on the road especially on corners.