Binky the Civic Build Thread

[JacobLeSann]

Originally Posted by j-c-c

We all however, should not forget IMO:

1. The thrill of being 19 again
2. Most of us would not recognize a future Einstein in the making
3. Einstein is said to have been only 16 when he was forming the early foundations for his "miracle" theories only a few years later
4. And if the OP can find his way thru the weeds here, I'm impressed and offer only encouragement for the young man

Haha, guess who’s back?

I’ve gotten more experience in the seat, and now I come back to this thread to laugh at myself. I know a lot more now. Not Einstein, but thank you.

Some things I’ve done since I last posted in this thread:
-Took my 5 days on/2 days off work schedule and made it a 3 days on/4 days off work schedule. Three 12 hour shifts instead of several 6 hour ones, and I’d stay at my grandmothers in the nearby town. Instead of 10 trips, that’s only 2. Huge gas savings, but I get homesick.
-Removed my aero mods. I was all mixed up in thinking I was going to buy another car, but with the future of the used car market I canned that idea. Too bad I removed all the mods. It makes me a much better driver (in terms of saving gas).
-Blew my engine! Yeah, this one sucked. I caught the young driver bug and went for the top speed runs when the police weren’t around. I learned the hard way not to do this with a poorly-maintained engine. Looonnnggg walk home.
-Found a hand-me-down racing simulator setup. I play Forza Horizon quite often and love racing the ‘97 Type R. It helps to keep me from being a nutcase on public roads and it’s the ultimate fuel-efficient way to drive fast; no gas at all! Highly recommend.

Main difference is I’m a lot smarter. My car is fine in the winter and the conditions aren’t as horrid as I thought. The only issues I had were self-inflicted, and I’ve become pretty good at bodywork repair. Mechanical repairs? Working on it.

Anyhow, that’s my big update. I’ve purchased Julian Edgar’s “Modifying The Aerodynamics of Your Road Car”, and it’s helped a ton in my knowledge of aero. I’m hoping to start over the aero mods with a goal for a nice-looking, ultra-sleek car. I’m also shooting for high speed stability, because I could definitely feel some lift going on at high speeds.

[JacobLeSann]

Here’s some ideas:



Not to scale or fully fleshed out, just ideas. I want to try and use a sort of Kamm tail extension on the rear instead of a boat tail. I’m hoping a slight extension with a sharp separation edge will make an impact on FE. Would suck if a cyclist rear-ended me, lol.

I’ll be building custom mirrors or modifying 80’s Chevette mirrors. Removing them makes sense, but I prefer to have them.

I’m considering fender-mounted mirrors. Used on many vintage cars, as well as some modern Rocket Bunny-esque builds. How come that’s not a common mod? You’re taking the mirror away from the A pillar, which is an important area for airflow. Beyond fender-mounts, mirrors like the RX7 FD have seem to be a good design.

Other question: Julian Edgar talks about a design of underbody panel that can use an adjustable dump for the engine bay’s air. He says that with the dump shut, air can fill the engine bay and created a pressurized pocket that would act as a grille block. Has this been done? I’d love to know.

[freebeard]

Thanks for the pic.

I want to try and use a sort of Kamm tail extension on the rear instead of a boat tail.

I'd call that a boxed cavity. A Kammback would include the notchback roofline. That roofline [prolly] has vortexii rolling off the outer corners of the C-pillar that won't be affected by the five vortex generators.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by JacobLeSann

Here’s some ideas:



Not to scale or fully fleshed out, just ideas. I want to try and use a sort of Kamm tail extension on the rear instead of a boat tail. I’m hoping a slight extension with a sharp separation edge will make an impact on FE. Would suck if a cyclist rear-ended me, lol.

I’ll be building custom mirrors or modifying 80’s Chevette mirrors. Removing them makes sense, but I prefer to have them.

I’m considering fender-mounted mirrors. Used on many vintage cars, as well as some modern Rocket Bunny-esque builds. How come that’s not a common mod? You’re taking the mirror away from the A pillar, which is an important area for airflow. Beyond fender-mounts, mirrors like the RX7 FD have seem to be a good design.

Other question: Julian Edgar talks about a design of underbody panel that can use an adjustable dump for the engine bay’s air. He says that with the dump shut, air can fill the engine bay and created a pressurized pocket that would act as a grille block. Has this been done? I’d love to know.

* The notchback has the most complex flow patterns of all body types, so it's difficult to nail down predictions.
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* From memory, I believe that the variable-geometry engine bay extractor nozzle came from Land Rover SUV research.
* With a fully-open cooling system inlet, we have no verification that all vehicles would respond the same way as the single test vehicle.
* A concern would be that, by creating only the exit restriction, with wide-open stagnation pressure air in front of it, it might simply create a high-velocity jet of air, which if it 'overshot' the departure from the body, could create a local, unwanted air-curtain, playing havoc with the surrounding flow.
* Current practice is to regulate the cooling air volume at the radiator.
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* The front wheel-arch gap-fillers are a 'go.'
* The deflector preceding the windshield may already be in a separation bubble, with the air already deflected.
* Underbody wheel fairings are used on all the lowest drag vehicles, so anything there is 'way out ahead of nothing.'
* Rear skirts are definitely a 'go.'
* The rear boot/ trunk lid height may have already been optimized and flow 'saturated.' ( impossible to know without testing results published by the manufacturer, or independent testing )
* Lengthening the rear is 'historically' something always done for drag reduction. You want the flow attached, while gently reducing the body cross-section ( top, sides, and bottom ) moving rearwards, regaining pressure as you go. Some carmakers will add extended flying-C-pillars, which help limit and guide the flow. ( Lotus, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pontiac Fiero, etc.. )
* The diffuser, as shown, may be problematic for drag, but good for high-speed stability. ( at Bonneville, by closing off this type of steeper ramp, I gained top speed in my CRX )
* All your mirror ideas look good.

[JacobLeSann]

Thanks guys. The diffuser might be taller than it should. 5 degrees of upsweep is the max for drag reduction, I believe?

Maybe I’ll do what’s already been done and try an adjustable cooling inlet, thanks for the info.

The deflector before the windshield likely is in a separation bubble, I’ll probably just leave it. I’ve noticed rain doesn’t go near that part of the windshield, so I’ll bet you’re right.

I made the mistake of drawing the rear windshield too tall and too steep. Here’s an actual side template of the car:


I think there’s attached flow down the rear windshield, even if it’s poor. A very shallow notchback. Rain tends to flow down the rear windshield in a straight path. I can tuft test the car’s body and see for myself once it’s up and running again. Essentially, I want do everything I can to keep the rear windshield clear of obstructions and looking good while getting good airflow down it. The C-pillar area is indeed a problem.

In the front wheel-well, I’ve drawn the aft edge to be sweeping inward. I plan to do this in both wheel wells, as I’ll be making the rear skirt removable for the winter. Have you done this on your truck, Aerohead? It looks like you have.

[freebeard]

Tape a thin piece of paper to your monitor and you can trace the correct shape.

[Piotrsko]

Do they still make onion skin or flimsies?

Edit: use a screen save shot imported to your favorite graphics software. For the computing shy: take a picture save it to paintbrush, modify said picture.

[freebeard]

Traced Offscreen:



Photochopped:



3D modelled:

[JacobLeSann]

I was wondering if you have any photos of builds you’ve done, Freebeard? I like the white beetle you’ve posted about.

Anybody try those air curtain designs on a front bumper? Julian did with his insight but I don’t think the benefit was that huge and worth the strange aesthetics. I like your design that you made.

[aerohead]

Some members have done them.
Their performance is a challenge to quantify, as their performance is close to testing resolution that we amateurs can perform.
One curious situation occurred in relation to them.
When Hyundai went to the Bonneville Salt Flats to attempt a speed record, they 'abandoned' the air curtains on the race car, opting for MOON wheel covers.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/hyun...at-bonneville/