Bio-Diesel, the other alternative fuel

[UFO]

Originally Posted by dcb

but this is the fossil fuel free forum?!? it seems illogical that a mix of a mere 20% bio keeps coming up.

Completely agree. However most diesels will use B100 without modification. The only exceptions are newer vehicles with post-injection burnoff for the DPF (diesel particulate filter).

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by dcb

I'm curious though, at, do you not believe me that when my car first starts on b100 it smells more like something from the kitchen than short term death (like my neighbors truck that idles for an hour)?

You can smell the higher concentrations of HCs and CO (odourless, but you can taste it) in fossil diesel, but NOx goes undetected until it pours down as acid rain.

There's no denying that biodiesel is better regarding HC, CO, S02, PM, and is mostly a closed CO2 cycle, but NOx remains a problem.


If I could run it in my car, I would, but the engine maker strongly advises against it - B100 gets into the oil when it's injected post-combustion to raise the temps in the particulate filter.
Even using B30, the oil swap interval should be halved (to 6200 miles).
I'll have a go at it when the car gets older though
On top of that, there are no pumps carrying B100 or even B30 - we do have B5 as standard though.

That's were legislation should come in, to force the engine makers into producing B100-capable engines by default.
In newer VWs, you can't run B100 anymore though it worked in the older ones ! That's taking a step back rather than forward.

[Irukandji83]

Originally Posted by euromodder

If I could run it in my car, I would, but the engine maker strongly advises against it - B100 gets into the oil when it's injected post-combustion to raise the temps in the particulate filter.
Even using B30, the oil swap interval should be halved (to 6200 miles).
I'll have a go at it when the car gets older though
On top of that, there are no pumps carrying B100 or even B30 - we do have B5 as standard though.

^^^^this is exactly why non-B100 mixes keep coming up and I don't know what other thread to talk about bio-diesel in.....

[euromodder]

Found this PDF while searching around:
http://www.ebb-eu.org/studiesreports...s%20FRANCE.pdf

It's from a French cooperative company trying out a 50% RME blend in their trucks and cars over a long time.
The interesting part is the cars have earlier versions of PSA's 2.0L HDi engines, with DPF and 20.000km oil swaps.
Piwoslaw and I are running the smaller 1.6 HDi versions of these engines - same technology though.

They seem to have had no fuel related problems during the testing, though oil dilution needs to be monitored.
The CoOp is now running B30.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by euromodder

...
In newer VWs, you can't run B100 anymore though it worked in the older ones ! That's taking a step back rather than forward.

What's the issue? a particulate trap? given this is a modder forum too, mebbe we should talk about workarounds. Would cutting the duty cycle of the after injector by 50% fix it? I don't know what the problem is with biodiesel in a post 2005 vehicle yet. But if it is downstream of the engine then it sounds like there may be an easy fix. And yes it sounds like a huge step backwards for VW if it isn't something easy to work around.

It might not void the warranty to use biodiesel, depending where you live perhaps
Biodiesel can't void your warranty? — Autoblog Green
"Magnuson Moss Warranty Act from 1975 doesn't allow a manufacturer to void a vehicle's warranty based on the fuel that the owner is using to power it"

The new VWs seems to "run" fine on b100 anyway
http://www.biofuelsforum.com/nsw_bio...biodiesel.html
Am I missing something?

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by dcb

What's the issue? a particulate trap?

Injecting BD into the cylinder in the exhaust phase.
BD doesn't vaporize enough in this phase,and gets into the oil, thus increasing the oil level .
BD doesn't evaporate from the oil as diesel does, so it stays in there and degrades the oil.

It's not really an engine issue, it's an emissions control equipment issue causing an engine problem.

given this is a modder forum too, mebbe we should talk about workarounds.

The only options are another method of clearing the DPF - which isn't easy to implement - or its removal - which is illegal and pumps out soot.

Running lower % blends also works, but oil quantity and quality needs to be monitored.

Would cutting the duty cycle of the after injector by 50% fix it?

It only delays the process.
It doesn't cure it.

But if it is downstream of the engine then it sounds like there may be an easy fix. And yes it sounds like a huge step backwards for VW if it isn't something easy to work around.

It's pretty easy to workaround.
All they need is a dedicated injector between the exhaust and the DPF - i.e. not injecting in the cylinder.
Only problem is it'd cost a lot if it were to require a second CR / high pressure fuel system for that injector.

Putting the DPF really close to the engine, might offer a chance to run the DPF-injector right off the engine's CR - that requires a complete engine bay rearrangement and it'd get pretty crowded there.

The new VWs seems to "run" fine on b100 anyway

DPF-equiped TDi's don't.
The engine itself does, the rest of the emissions system doesn't.

Dunno about the US situation, but in Europe DPFs were introduced on Euro4 diesels - though depending on the market, not all Euro4 diesels have them.
Euro5 diesels all have DPF.

The best solution would be to legally force diesel engine builders into B100 compatability at short notice.
We can't have them rule out B100 as an alternative fuel.

[dcb]

I think I found the gel point on the local biodiesel today, ~28F. had to call the mrs to push the golf home with the volvo , will have to fetch some kerosene I recon and shake things up a little.

[UFO]

Wow, brave man. I cut down to B50 a few weeks ago. My B100 fuel sample on the window freezes every night -- 28F is about right. We snapped down to 10F the night before last, and the B50 started to cloud up.

[alohaspirit]

thats why im into wvo


because my veggie oil never clouds or gels

[autoteach]

cloud point is 40 degrees, you should start mixing down when temps get close. The again, I am suggesting reason.