Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-13-2011, 10:25 AM   #201 (permalink)
Eco-ventor
 
jakobnev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: sweden
Posts: 1,569

Princess - '92 Mazda MX-3 GS
House of Tudor
Team Mazda
90 day: 53.54 mpg (US)

Shirubāarō (*´ω`*) - '05 Toyota Prius Executive
Team Toyota
90 day: 54.88 mpg (US)

Blue Thunder - '20 Hyundai IONIQ Trend PHEV
Team Hyundai
Plug-in Hybrids
Thanks: 68
Thanked 644 Times in 408 Posts
Send a message via MSN to jakobnev
It looks like the efficiency delta of the engine swamps the ditto of the generator.

There might still sweet spot towards the south east of the 240-zone tho:

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ampera.jpg
Views:	1596
Size:	76.5 KB
ID:	9548  
__________________




2016: 128.75L for 1875.00km => 6.87L/100km (34.3MPG US)
2017: 209.14L for 4244.00km => 4.93L/100km (47.7MPG US)
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jakobnev For This Useful Post:
mort (10-13-2011)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-13-2011, 11:18 AM   #202 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
exactly!
in case I will have 'nothing to do' at work, I will try to create a combined map
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2011, 08:40 AM   #203 (permalink)
aero guerrilla
 
Piwoslaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Warsaw, Poland
Posts: 3,538

Svietlana II - '13 Peugeot 308SW e-HDI 6sp
90 day: 58.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,056
Thanked 630 Times in 396 Posts
VW's 1.4 TSI with cylinder deactivation:


More info here.
__________________
e·co·mod·ding: the art of turning vehicles into what they should be

What matters is where you're going, not how fast.

"... we humans tend to screw up everything that's good enough as it is...or everything that we're attracted to, we love to go and defile it." - Chris Cornell

Piwoslaw's Peugeot 307sw modding thread

  Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2011, 03:46 PM   #204 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakobnev View Post
It looks like the efficiency delta of the engine swamps the ditto of the generator.

There might still sweet spot towards the south east of the 240-zone tho:
(see above image.. I cannot post links images yet).
I'm trying to track down the volt BSFC and its source. You posted the chart but not the source, I'm curious where you got it.
Do you have some spec/manual I can site as the source? Since this has a generator chart it seems as if it must be volt/apmera specific since no other 0, generation 3 engine has the same type of generator. I'm curious since some posts about the volt said GM modeling said they could get better efficiency (closer to 50mpg) if they were running at 3500-3800 rpm, but it was not done because it was too noisy. ( google autoblog "where does erev technology go from here" to find an example article). However, that statement about better RPM range is not consistent with your posted BSFC.


Also your plot has a gold line for operational curve, but for the generator I would think it the torque would be at the generator so it would not be matched with the engine torque, which would be a combination of both the generator and the cards travel load. If the total engine load is 110nm @3000rpm, that might be split as 70nm for driving and 40nm for the generator load, or 50 for driving and 60 for generator or any other combination that add up to the total 110nm.

Thus your direct overlay of the operational line for the generator does not make sense to me?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 08:08 PM   #205 (permalink)
home of the odd vehicles
 
rmay635703's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere in WI
Posts: 3,553

Silver - '10 Chevy Cobalt XFE
Thanks: 406
Thanked 759 Times in 569 Posts
I have been looking for a BSFC chart for a C-code 82 GM 6.2ltr diesel for some time.

I found this
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA349754

Better than absolutely nothing, sadly they only consider WOT but it still is quite interesting, fuel consumption per unit of power stays quite flat for an NA diesel

I would be most interested in the NON-wot values.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:23 PM   #206 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurcher
 
mort's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 322
Thanks: 145
Thanked 101 Times in 73 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
I have been looking for a BSFC chart for a C-code 82 GM 6.2ltr diesel for some time.

I found this
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA349754

Better than absolutely nothing, sadly they only consider WOT but it still is quite interesting, fuel consumption per unit of power stays quite flat for an NA diesel

I would be most interested in the NON-wot values.
Hi rmay635703,
On page 58[pdf] (A-6[as labeled]) there is a slim hint, idle specific fuel consumption is 10 times higher than at maximum power. 5.83 vs .528. Or on page 83 (B-6) 1.36 to .52 I wonder what that is supposed to represent. Idle exhaust gas temp is just above boiling!

Also, after the GM 6.2 L there is another engine described on page 36 (27) 5.2 L two stroke turbo (Detroit Diesel?), tests on page 41 (32) (and page 122 or C-5 and 156 or D-6). Talk about flat bsfc - from 1800 rpm to 2800 rpm (190 hp to 260 hp) the bsfc goes from .36 to .34 to .38 (39% to 35% eff.)

-mort
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2012, 04:26 AM   #207 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 4
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Hi guys,
I quickly went through the document and all the BSFC values are in lb/hr.hp.. So to compare you need to recalculate them to g/hr.kW..

The BSFC idle value on page 58 looks strange to me.. generally, you have higher bsfc on idle, but only ~3 times comparing to best value
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 12:56 PM   #208 (permalink)
Depends on the Day
 
RH77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas City Area
Posts: 1,761

Teggy - '98 Acura Integra LS
Sports Cars
90 day: 32.74 mpg (US)

IMA - '10 Honda Insight EX
Team Honda
90 day: 34.76 mpg (US)

Tessie - '06 Acura TSX Base
90 day: 28.2 mpg (US)
Thanks: 31
Thanked 41 Times in 35 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mort View Post
Also, after the GM 6.2 L there is another engine described on page 36 (27) 5.2 L two stroke turbo (Detroit Diesel?), tests on page 41 (32) (and page 122 or C-5 and 156 or D-6). Talk about flat bsfc - from 1800 rpm to 2800 rpm (190 hp to 260 hp) the bsfc goes from .36 to .34 to .38 (39% to 35% eff.)
That's the old DD 6V53 2-stroke (mostly in over-the-road 1960's semi tractors, GM/GMC Heavy Duty "Screamin' Jimmy" trucks/buses, and popular in hydraulic pump and power generators). These preceded the Series 71 and 92 applications, mostly used in transit buses, until emissions took them out of routine service in the late 90's. I do miss the sound, but not the smoke!

RH77
__________________
“If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research” ― Albert Einstein

_
_
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 09:11 AM   #209 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
BSFC charts as a picture are nice, but useless to use it in programs like Matlab.
Does anybody know if somewhere raw data/measurement of a BSFC chart for a real engine no matter how old it is?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2012, 09:37 AM   #210 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 259

Bio Deezler (sold) - '03 Volkswagen Jetta GLS TDI
90 day: 50.78 mpg (US)

The Beast. - '03 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT
90 day: 12.86 mpg (US)
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts
You can re-create them pretty easily yourself....

I re-made the BSFC chart for the VW TDI (1.9L ALH engine) just by estimating data points along each constant BSFC line, and interpolating between them to get nice smooth curves that matched the originals. Only took 10 minutes in excel.


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com