Buying used, instead of new for environmental reasons -Pros and Cons ?

[freebeard]

The biggest problem with the BugE was no floorboard. Flintstone brakes? Bleugene used them for meter maids.

Here's where I was at in 2013, between the BugE and the FUV:



..and I have a Lexus 68hp/98lb single-speed electric axle on the bench. Compare with Arcimoto's twin 40hp drivetrain. But they have torque vectoring.

And I hold a perfected reservation number, I just need to sell three cars to cover the $5K downpayment.

I used to be a sales clerk at Nextstep recycling, where we sold G-4 Macintoshes for as low as $25. Since, I've bought iMacs and Mac Minis in the $75-100 range. But now (post-Smartmatic/Dominion) I agree with Richard M. Stallman on Free and Open Source software. So I bought a new Raspberry Pi in the same price range.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by order99

My cellphone is a 16-year-old Motorola, and I did buy that one new because it was the only way to get service back then in my region-but I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until the 3G signal is no longer supported (and since 5G takes infinite repeaters every friggen' mile and 4G is compatible with 3G it's going to be a looong time). I changed the batteries 6 years ago.

Took me a while to get rid of old-school Nokia cellphones and embrace newer stuff. Had my last Nokia not had its charging inlet to fail, or being able to charge from the USB port, probably I would have kept it for longer. Well, its camera was also not so good at all, and some apps are not compatible with those older phones plus their built-in navigator is not so great to use the browser interface of some apps as in a computer.

Nearly 90% of my clothing comes from Thrift Store (exceptions are socks, underwear, watch and most shoes). Why spend $25.00+ for a set of pants when I can get a decent set for $5.00 or so, with a decade or more of use remaining?

I never bought used clothing, yet I usually don't buy fancy ones.

Until recently, I bought all my computers used-you can get one a few years out of date for roughly $30.00 at Habitat for Humanity and other places. Since i'm a Linux user, older hardware doesn't mean a thing. Last year was my only exception-A HP All-in-one with Terabyte HD, 4G of Ram and quad processor went on sale for $275.00 right after some idiot tried to steal my (obsolete) laptop and destroyed it in the process. So, given my computer needs, i'm probably set until 2029 or so...

The suitability of Linux to "obsolete" hardware is appealing. I don't remember having more than 3 brand-new computers which were only mine, yet when my parents were still married it was usual to have only one desktop at home. Even though the first 2 computers at home were already used, at least the CPU of another was bought new yet other hardware were kept from the previous one.

I am currently living in a 2002 Jayco, 21,000.00 new but purchased in 2013 for 7,900.00 (depreciation is insane on RVs) parked next to an 8X8 outbuilding for my workshop and storage-sadly, I paid full price for the outbuilding but I got what I paid for at least! The great thing about getting such a cheap living quarters is that you aren't afraid to modify it-the Jayco was originally a Bunkhouse style (three beds, pull-out couch and drop-down table for up to 10 sleepers at once) so the bedroom is now an office with a walk-in closet and I have lots of room and low heating/cooling costs (I drilled holes in the inner walls, filled them full of closed-cell foam one can at a time and painted them-R15 up to roughly R35 or so). This RV has withstood both a minor and a major hurricane-I am utterly, thoroughly impressed with this inexpensive frame on wheels...

That's an interesting approach. Well, honestly most RVs seem to be quite overbuilt compared to the average McMansion.

if I suddenly find myself awash in more money than i'll ever need in my life, I doubt i'll stop being a bargain hunter-although if I do purchase new, i'll probably hire someone to design a vehicle or a dwelling custom

Even though some vehicles available in other countries could serve me right, having some custom-made might be cool too.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by order99

Well, being on the wrong side of the poverty line my entire life, I buy nearly used everything.

In short, I would be dead in an alleyway somewhere if Used was not an option-but with it, I live pretty well. And if I suddenly find myself awash in more money than i'll ever need in my life, I doubt i'll stop being a bargain hunter

Being a spender or a saver has nothing to do with income. I was a saver from the first coin I was given and enjoyed the infinite possibility it represented more than the certainty of spending it on something in particular; especially of fleeting interest.

I grew up in probably the bottom 5% of wealth. My dad was a clerk at Safeway and my mom didn't work (for income), but I didn't feel poor or deprived compared to my peers until a brief period in middle school where everyone sucks.

Pretty quickly out of prison I got a decent paying job but still decided to live in my Subaru during the work week. With 13 hour shifts, I couldn't see spending so much just to be unconscious (sleeping) in a house. I slept in my Subaru and showered at the gym ($8/month).

Eventually I decided I'd like to have a girlfriend and that required living somewhere, so I moved in with a friend and paid $400/mo. When he got married, I bought a 4 bedroom house and took on roommates to more than pay the mortgage. I kept roommates even after I got married.

...this thread is about buying used... I've never owned a new car and my wife has never had a new cell phone, and none of that is due to lack of means. One can live at a higher level of comfort than their income would otherwise suggest regardless of what that income is by delayed gratification. By not chasing after the latest thing, but being content with a previous generation, a ton of money can be saved. I'd argue one can even, on average, own a newer generation of stuff for less money with this method rather than always buying latest generation and using it for a long period of time.

I see people on car forums justify their new car purchase saying they intend to own the car for 20 years, so that's why it isn't so expensive. Meanwhile I can own a 5 year old vehicle for a fraction of the cost and upgrade it every so often so I'm never in something 2 decades old (though my truck is 23, and my motorcycle is now 20).

I'm frugal for the sake of financial prudence, not for the environment. It just happens that frugality is also better for conservation.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by CR

That's an interesting approach. Well, honestly most RVs seem to be quite overbuilt compared to the average McMansion.

I was in a motor home once that both sinks were cast resin embedded with swirls of metalflake, with lights underneath. Never been in a McMansion.

order99 — I just noticed this:

if I suddenly find myself awash in more money than i'll ever need in my life, I...'ll probably hire someone to design a vehicle or a dwelling custom

Ahem.... Just, you know, in case — here's my design for a motor home. It could be bent and welded out of SpaceX stainless steel, else triangles cut out of oil drums or shipping container.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by order99

My cellphone is a 16-year-old Motorola, and I did buy that one new because it was the only way to get service back then in my region-but I have not upgraded and will not upgrade until the 3G signal is no longer supported (and since 5G takes infinite repeaters every friggen' mile and 4G is compatible with 3G it's going to be a looong time). I changed the batteries 6 years ago.

Verizon shut down their 3G network last night.

My father and father-in-law had to give up their old phones and find new ones. My father tried 2 LG flip phones that both failed within 1 week before agreeing to use my wife's old iPhone SE. I took off every app except the calculator and phone - he is doing fine with it. My father-in-law refused to use my sister-in-law's old smartphone so he bought the same $90 LG flip phone that failed on my dad twice

AT&T is shutting down their 3G network in "early 2022".

Both are moving to VoLTE for all of their voice calls so LTE is a requirement.

[racprops]

Here is another take on buying used….

You can check the track records. You can avoid buying the latest POS that turns out to be a total mess.

Case in Point: I love my Ford Crown Vic Ex-Cop Car, a model P71. First is these cars were hardened for police work. Second they were (in most cases) well maintained. Third thanks to the computer it cannot be over reved.

And Lastly it has the bear minimum of electronic toys and crap, stuff that can go bad and cost a fortune to repair.

Now ad in their reparation’s: these cars are WELL known to be driven 100K in service, taken off service and then many are sold to Cab companies whom then drive them ANOTHER 200/300K.

There are many that 300K can go 200K more with heads and timing chain service, so 500K+ is done often, and again many do make that 500K without major repairs.

I ended up with what I consider the second best year a 2003, mainly as there was a couple of changes in the 2004 model year. The 04 is the last year of drive by cable, the 05s switch to drive by wire as in the PU controls the throttle. And the 05s have other upgrades to the computer controls that in my book makes it one I do not want. PS I have a 04 as a junk parts car and have made a couple of upgrade 04 stuff to my 03.

As there were so many made there are no problem getting parts, it is easy to fix and cheap to do so.

Same thing with my 93 Chevy van, called the third generation, this base model has been around from 1970. So any real design/engineering flaws have long been found and fixed. And even with my 93 the CPU only controls the engine and transmission. And here I will point out it is a LOT easier to reprogram an OBDI PCM that the newer ones.

All upgrades have been to drive line and again like the Crown Vic tons are all around and in junk yards too.

Sadly I cannot say the same with my 02 Ford Explorer, ( again freebie it was left with me for over a year so I filed on it..cost $1200.00 to repair it for driving) it already has had problems with the electric parts, and get this there is ONLY ONE door with a key lock…all the rest including the back hatch DEPEND on the power locks…. And it has a terrible engine; to service or replace the fuel injectors requires removing the intake manifold. And with its dual OH Cams there is two timing chains and ONE is on the back side of the engine which requires removing the engine to replace. If it goes so does the truck.

And I will NEVER buy a Japanese car. Thank God the three we have had were freebies, given to my wife by her mother from around 1994 to date.

First was 1985 Mazda 626, which at around 120K started to have all kinds of plastic and rubber parts failure, the engine got a cracked head at 140K, I figured Mazda was a bad builder, then we got a 91 Toyota Corona, glad it was free as I ended up spending a few thousands of dollars keeping it on the road, including replacing its engine at 135K. And again the incredible amount of plastic and rubber failures.

Now we have a 2000 Toyota Camry, got it with 110K…we are not at 135K…and same thing, plastic and rubber parts failures all over the place…radiator tank split, wiring problems in the trunk, a PLASTIC thermostat HOUSING..(OMG) the Air intake tube from the air cleaner to the throttle body just fell apart. And others, there is a vapor leak that keeps turning on the check engine light, and even one of the best auto repairmen I have ever met (much better that I) WITH a smoke injection machine and two tries WE cannot find it, in the summer we can smell gasoline from time to time…damn car.

These parts never failed in a 69 VW Bug, (Still in the back yard, needs a transmission, church, now any interior head liner and for me to finish installing A/C ) my 93 Van or any car I have owned..yet I seen these problems in three Japanese cars…and from my research it is common with any Japanese car at 8 to 10 years old, the plastic and rubber parts start to just crumble.

So be warned.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by racprops

Case in Point: I love my Ford Crown Vic Ex-Cop Car, a model P71. First is these cars were hardened for police work. Second they were (in most cases) well maintained. Third thanks to the computer it cannot be over reved.

And Lastly it has the bear minimum of electronic toys and crap, stuff that can go bad and cost a fortune to repair.

Now ad in their reparation’s: these cars are WELL known to be driven 100K in service, taken off service and then many are sold to Cab companies whom then drive them ANOTHER 200/300K.

There are many that 300K can go 200K more with heads and timing chain service, so 500K+ is done often, and again many do make that 500K without major repairs.

I ended up with what I consider the second best year a 2003, mainly as there was a couple of changes in the 2004 model year. The 04 is the last year of drive by cable, the 05s switch to drive by wire as in the PU controls the throttle. And the 05s have other upgrades to the computer controls that in my book makes it one I do not want.

Even though you're unlikely to ever perform some mods such as swapping the V8 for some downsized 4-pot out of a new Ranger or Mustang with the 10-speed automatic, the beauty of a body-on-frame design is that it can be made work nearly indefinitely, and with the right approach to a makeshift repair it may not affect the structural integrity so badly as in an unibody.

Sadly I cannot say the same with my 02 Ford Explorer, ( again freebie it was left with me for over a year so I filed on it..cost $1200.00 to repair it for driving) it already has had problems with the electric parts, and get this there is ONLY ONE door with a key lock…all the rest including the back hatch DEPEND on the power locks…. And it has a terrible engine; to service or replace the fuel injectors requires removing the intake manifold. And with its dual OH Cams there is two timing chains and ONE is on the back side of the engine which requires removing the engine to replace. If it goes so does the truck.

IIRC this engine actually has 3 timing chains, no wonder it's a PITA to deal with.

And I will NEVER buy a Japanese car.

There are few Jap stuff I really like, mostly old-school 4WD trucks such as the J40-series Land Cruiser and the Nissan Patrol of the 160/260, Y60 and Y61 generations.

Now we have a 2000 Toyota Camry, got it with 110K…we are not at 135K…and same thing, plastic and rubber parts failures all over the place…radiator tank split, wiring problems in the trunk, a PLASTIC thermostat HOUSING..(OMG) the Air intake tube from the air cleaner to the throttle body just fell apart.

Unfortunately nowadays even American automakers use plastic for parts which used to be made out of metal until recently. If you ever get the chance to take a look under the hood of a Mexican Chevrolet Onix you'll be shocked to see a plastic intake manifold even though its engines are turbocharged.

from my research it is common with any Japanese car at 8 to 10 years old, the plastic and rubber parts start to just crumble

I have seen many different old JDM cars exported to Paraguay, and some were as good-looking as if they were brand-new. Well, it's often pointed out JDM models are more overbuilt than international models.

[M_a_t_t]

I assumed this thread might be a little more relavent than the stolen car one, but why don't you just get another civic. If it's your ideal car then why change it?

Also, basjoos was selling his car awhile back with no buyer. He was asking 3k obo.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post625816

[Cd]

Originally Posted by M_a_t_t

I assumed this thread might be a little more relavent than the stolen car one, but why don't you just get another civic. If it's your ideal car then why change it?

Also, basjoos was selling his car awhile back with no buyer. He was asking 3k obo.

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...tml#post625816

I plan to just use Uber to travel and not own a car.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Cd

I plan to just use Uber to travel and not own a car.

It's quite interesting how Uber is changing the used car market in my country BTW.