Quote:
Originally Posted by live4soccer7
Why the swap, other than power?
As far as the major ($$ wise) issues with them I understand they are the following.
Battery Pack $1-2K to replace (should last 10-12 yrs)
Transmission grind in 1st and 2nd around 150k
Everything else seems pretty solid and or follow under normal car maintenance stuff.
Cats were mentioned and shocks/struts. Something about the driver side window switch getting brittle and the rear electric latch release as well. None that seem like to big of a deal.
I just don't want to be buying a car that'll turn in to a maintenance nightmare. My vx is little to no maintenance and I'm not aware of any major flaws it has and I've been driving it for 8 yrs.
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Honestly the justification was pretty weak. Here's my logic:
With auto-stop working, most times I downshifted into 1st while still rolling it was a nasty grind, and there was no easy way around it because you can't rev match while the engine is off. I could drop it in 5th and then double clutch into 1st, but inevitably I was grinding occasionally in traffic. I could also disable auto-stop, but that was a depressing thought. I was prepared to pay to fix my downshift grind properly so I didn't eventually kill my gears and synchros. I went so far as to place an order for a rebuilt transmission with Scott (nation's best Insight mechanic) out of California.
He was weeks late getting the transmission ready. Over that time I looked at some other things I should do preventatively. Since shop time to get the car on a lift and remove the transmission is somewhat expensive, I figured I'd do the clutch which was original but still working well at 245k. And while I was at it, maybe the bearings in that area. And how about the seals too, since if they started leaking later it wouldn't be worth the effort to fix. The IMA motor needs to come off of the engine to get to the main shaft seal, and sometimes uncareful mechanics damage the equivalents to Hall sensors which the Insight uses, and then you have no more IMA, so I was concerned about that. Taking into account shipping back and forth for the gearbox and all of the other little things I wanted, I was looking at closer to $3,000 to "make it right".
The car was running great at ~235k. Engine burns no oil, runs... well, as smooth as a 3 cylinder ever runs. Transmission was fine except for the downshift grind. Battery was healthy.
But then there's the battery.
Aftermarket batteries do NOT last 10-12 years. The Japanese NiMH cells are all gone at this point. All cells come from China now, and evidence shows you're really lucky to get 5 years out of a pack. Many buyers from Bumblebee and others are getting the extended warranties and actually needing to use them. I don't see a $2,000 battery every 3-4 years as being sustainable when my OEM Honda battery did eventually fail.
My original plan was to do a lithium swap when my battery inevitably went, probably using a fraction of a pack from an EV and some homebrew electronics to fool the car's computer. There's a great team of minds over on Insight Central working on this but they're still nowhere near a drop-in replacement more than 3 years into the project. Plus, after some research I realized that in my climate, the first time I use assist when it's subzero, a small lithium pack is toast because lithium batteries do not survive high current charging below freezing.
Many don't get replacement packs because they're expensive and not reliable. A lot of high mileage Insights are driven with batteries removed. The cars drive fine without them and otherwise run like clockwork, but they're closer to 16 seconds to 60 than the 10 seconds you'd get with a working IMA. My personal opinion, it's a substantially less interesting and engaging car to drive with the hybrid system disabled, even if it's still reliable cheap transportation.
That said, $3,000 + $2,000 isn't too bad to put into a car which has otherwise been utterly reliable, in order to prevent future transmission damage and get rid of an annoyance while driving, and to keep the sweet (but unnecessary) IMA system working. I'd be set for another several hundred thousand miles of blissful ultimate fuel economy.
However, a K series swap on the cheap could approach that price, perhaps even with a fraction of the miles on the drivetrain. On top of that, I was able to sell my still-healthy battery for a significant chunk of change ($800 I think?), which further subsidizes it. So, it was not difficulty to rationalize having a zero mile engine and transmission, no IMA battery to worry about, and a car that accelerates literally 4x faster while still delivering phenomenal economy, for nearly the same price.
Now, my K swap is definitely going to exceed that budget, probably by close to 5x, but that's because I had a long wishlist of "wow wouldn't it be cool to have..." 's. Things like a limited slip differential for better snow traction, a linear 6 speed gearbox made of lightweight magnesium with a shorter 1st and longer 6th than the Insight's already ridiculously tall 5th gear. Weight reduction sufficient to make the car lighter than stock. Increased cargo room in the rear - close to double, and large enough that I could probably move a refrigerator in a pinch. 0-60 in <4 seconds. An engine and transmission with effectively zero miles. Aftermarket engine management I can play with. And, if all goes as planned, still better fuel economy than a Prius.
Ultimately though, it's because I like to tinker, I can afford it, and I'll still have a car that uses less fuel than any other gasoline car (sans a stock Insight) on the road.
Would I recommend an Insight to someone? Heck yes, but be prepared to eventually ditch the battery or pony up for a replacement every few years. It's definitely the Achilles heel of the car.
EDIT: There was, of course, nothing to stop me from just driving the car until the wheels fell off.
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