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Old 07-17-2011, 01:03 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Hmmm, a 1973 Subaru and an Unnamed year Pre-1979 Opel GT as 900-1400lb test beds going 30mph.

Seems I was about right on a few observations.

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Old 07-17-2011, 01:21 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I know that I am coming to the tail end of all of this, but it has been done.

I am going to purchase the plans for myself, since most of what I do now is inner city driving and I need to have something that works better than Hitoshi ( my Honda ).

I'll keep everyone posted.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:21 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Let me know what I am missing here, these are just some swags, but this is what I'm trying to get across, lots of places to lose energy, and 5hp isn't much to begin with, if accelerating or cruising.

Also keep in mind that plenty of folks here get 70mpg+ around town in metro sized vehicles with little more than technique. I get 60mph regularly in my saturn in town and can get 45mpg from here to california.

Perhaps it is because you are starting with 5hp, but it doesn't seem to add up to savings, certainly it does not add up to continuous highway operation or continuous repeated acceleration at every stoplight. The starter motor looks like 15shp. If I'm close with the losses, you will need to spend 10x as much time recharging with the 5hp wide open, as you do accelerating to be "continuous"?



BTW, why is this in fossil fuel free?
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:28 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I just want a cheap way to use something like my minivan but get 40-45mpg average on my 54mile one way commute. I love my metro but its just too small sometimes and is NOT comfortable.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:29 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleanspeed1 View Post
I know that I am coming to the tail end of all of this, but it has been done.

I am going to purchase the plans for myself, since most of what I do now is inner city driving and I need to have something that works better than Hitoshi ( my Honda ).

I'll keep everyone posted.
Definately keep us posted, my guess is most serial conversions done end up being a small testbed.

If your just tooting around town and can keep weight under 2k I would opt for a 48v DC military generator setup (as opposed to all the complex BS with AC->DC), attach it to a small yanmar or some other reliable efficient diesel.

Both my little EV's the 2400lb miles and the 1300lb C-car go past 30mph with 48v, so it should be usable if you can keep weight down, just don't expect to be pulled through your seat.

If you can find a post WWII aircraft starter generator source I can't say I've ever found one myself though many old schoolers talk about them, they work well also.

good source of diesel gennys is govliquidation.com And remember the diesel engine and the genset are usually sold separately.

Good Luck
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:58 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
Let me know what I am missing here, these are just some swags, but this is what I'm trying to get across, lots of places to lose energy, and 5hp isn't much to begin with, if accelerating or cruising.

Also keep in mind that plenty of folks here get 70mpg+ around town in metro sized vehicles with little more than technique. I get 60mph regularly in my saturn in town and can get 45mpg from here to california.?
I agree this might just be a more hands off method at low speeds to achieve those figures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcb View Post
Perhaps it is because you are starting with 5hp, but it doesn't seem to add up to savings, certainly it does not add up to continuous highway operation or continuous repeated acceleration at every stoplight. The starter motor looks like 15shp. If I'm close with the losses, you will need to spend 10x as much time recharging with the 5hp wide open, as you do accelerating to be "continuous"?

Looking at that it looks like the worst case scenario where nothing is operating at anywhere near an ideal level.

My fathers Miles ZX40 approches 90% eff between the motor and controller at wot. This motor is a bit more efficient than a standard EV motor (85% normally) (sealed and laminated, no wires) and the controller is actually a very poor eff unit but not at wot.

A common DC genset, especially a pure DC unit can be 95% EFF at certain load levels, averaged is about 85% as compared to the eff units you are using which is more closely tied to a Alternator or AC setup.
http://www.windstreampower.com/documents/EFFICIENCY.doc

The auto batteries should hopefully be out of the equation most of the time, since the genset will primarily run and provide just enough current for the vehicle to move. The exceptions are during decel, coasting and stops.

Personally a V-belt should be avoided which may not be possible, ideally the motor should turn the genset at speed 1:1

The driveline losses are likely true due to the fact you need to account for all efficiencies over a large range from 0 RPM to WOT. But this is also true of a prius or normal car since the ideal eff. for the setup is never really realized in any circumstance.

So basically if he takes the time to find the right components and the right loads to operate them at and keep them held to those standards (management) he should be able to due quite a bit better than your diagram would expect.

There are still a lot of losses but in the real world they usually aren't worst case.

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BTW, why is this in fossil fuel free?
No idea, I guess a diesel genset could be run off WVO but not really sure otherwise how this would fit in besides the EV eliment.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
Definately keep us posted, my guess is most serial conversions done end up being a small testbed.

If your just tooting around town and can keep weight under 2k I would opt for a 48v DC military generator setup (as opposed to all the complex BS with AC->DC), attach it to a small yanmar or some other reliable efficient diesel.

Both my little EV's the 2400lb miles and the 1300lb C-car go past 30mph with 48v, so it should be usable if you can keep weight down, just don't expect to be pulled through your seat.

If you can find a post WWII aircraft starter generator source I can't say I've ever found one myself though many old schoolers talk about them, they work well also.

good source of diesel gennys is govliquidation.com And remember the diesel engine and the genset are usually sold separately.

Good Luck


My problem is similiar to Nerys' in that I need a larger vehicle for my family, yet most of my driving does not require monster power, and it has to be done on a budget. The Mother Earth set up looks promising, and 25.00 is not going to put me out so that I can study. We have enough resources around here that can get the combination sorted so it's just a matter of doing it.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:29 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys View Post
I just want a cheap way to use something like my minivan but get 40-45mpg average on my 54mile one way commute. I love my metro but its just too small sometimes and is NOT comfortable.
I feel your pain, especially since being over 6 feet tall doesn't help matters in a Metro with babyseats and a wife that likes to "collect" things.

I considered a first generation Dodge Caravan with a Mitsubishi 4G55 and changing it over to a 4D55 since it will basically bolt in, except finding a 4D55 and the emission realities comes into question.
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:39 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Well, sounds like a conversion and a half. Maybe start with something like this for $5k (and drag it home)?
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Old 07-17-2011, 03:39 PM   #100 (permalink)
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yeah my dream is a nice little diesel in the minivan (exempt from emission in pa) but I can not AFFORD the diesel engine. people who have done this get 45-50mpg out of them !!

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