Car buying - HX/Echo/Focus, correct values

[justjohn]

Hi everyone. Driving an automatic Prizm right now which has been alright but is in mediocre shape and I really want a manual. Looking to spend about $6,000 max, hoping more like $3,000.

Here are a couple examples of things I've been looking at. Would love your thoughts on what to go for.

Echo
Not that many in my area. Got a dealer selling a clean 2001 with 115k on it for $3950 which looks about $500 over the value and they say "no haggle price."

Focus
Lots around me, got a 2005 supposedly good condition but CD player and something else working sporadically. 70k miles asking $4900. Blue book comes up $5500 clean, get excited, edmunds comes up $4600. Now confused.

Civic HX
No HF around me that aren't beaten to death, and only decent HX seem to be at dealers. Got a 2002 130k, looks mint, dealer asking 5800. Blue book $6500 retail, get excited, edmunds $4,000. What the heck.


I know the honda lean burns are kind of the holy grail around here, but I feel like kind of a tool paying that much more for a car with 130k on it. Also, bothered by the huge discrepancies between kbb and edmunds. Any insight on that and general recommendations would be much appreciated.

[Daox]

What kind of mileage are you getting in the Prizm now? Apply that same increase to the Echo, Focus, and Civic. Also, check what others are getting with their Echos, Focus' and Civics in the ecomodder garage.

IMO it sounds like the Echo is the best bang for the buck, but its also the smallest car. If you don't need the extra space it is a great car capable of really good mileage.

Here are the EPA ratings for the cars.

[War_Wagon]

I am just taking a guess here, but the discrepancies between the two books could be based on a few things. One is the timeliness that they update their information with. Used car prices in the US have gone up quite a bit in the last month or so on older vehicles (say pre 2006), just because there is not a lot of supply of them. We are actually shipping down cars from Canada, even with the dollar being above par, just because there is money to be made sending a 2007 Impala south where 3 months ago there wasn't. So depending on how often they update their prices, it will affect what result you get.

The other variable is where they get their information from. One may get it from retail sources or insurance companies, and one may get it from the wholesale auctions that dealers buy from. You have to treat the guide books as just that, a guide. They are average prices across the whole country, and rusty east coast cars bring down the average over clean west coast cars, so if you are looking at a vehicle that is out of the norm a bit (ie a standard when most are automatics etc), then you have to judge accordingly. Or as I always tell people, "It's worth what someone will pay for it." If you like the car and it's in your price range then that's the one to buy. Just my $.02

[darcane]

Do you have to buy from a dealer? That usually adds 20-30%

KBB, NADA, and Edmunds are guides to help you get a feel for what a car is worth, but there is no specific value. Every car is different and is only worth what someone will pay for it. Some may be worth more than a blue book price, some (most?) will be worth less than blue book.

Keep looking, there are good deals out there.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by justjohn

Also, bothered by the huge discrepancies between kbb and edmunds.

All these price references are an appreciation, and appreciations tend to vary

Are both referring to the same value ?

Cars at dealerships are always priced higher than private sales.
OTOH, selling your car to a dealership usually gets you a lower price than a private sale.

The difference seems to be the mark-up at a dealership.

[justjohn]

Thought I replied to Daox but clicked away apparently. Said something like:

Getting a just over 30 most of the time from the Prizm which isn't bad but I feel very handicapped by the 3 speed auto. I feel like I could do much better in a 5-speed manual.

Was in fact looking at Echos first, but there aren't many for sale around here apparently. The one I was talking about is almost 2 hours away, and most are automatic. Just talked to that dealer and they said they could do $3800 if they drop their 3 month warranty that they do. Still well over what it seems to be worth though.

[justjohn]

Okay read the other posts now. Thanks for the input. I was very careful to select both estimates as "dealer price" or "private sale" price depending on what car I was looking at, so that is not the reason for the difference. Perhaps it is inflation of used car prices as war wagon said, since nearly everything in my area seems ridiculously overpriced.

And no, I don't really want to buy from a dealer. It's just that there aren't many echos and lean burn hondas around, and finding one in decent shape seems kind of hard.


Maybe I'll end up just holding out for a year or two and shoot for a fiesta or something like that.

[Daox]

Well it sounds like you don't want to spend the money for a different car. What about a transmission swap?

[justjohn]

I think changing the transmission a little too big a job for me, and I don't love my current car that much. It's a tiny bit smoky smelling and the speakers aren't great.

It's not necessarily that I don't want to spend the money, I just want to make a smart choice. I would consider purchasing a brand new vehicle if it make the most sense.

So I expanded my research a bit. Looks like the market really is just high right now. And I wasn't kidding about not many echos. Check this out:

I live near the WI/IL border. There are for sale by owner on craigslist,
Manual transmission Echos in WI or IL: 0
Manual transmission Echos within 300 miles of me: 3
Average asking price on those 3: almost exactly double the blue book

So. Makes me not want to buy because prices are bad, but gas is going up so I'll be annoyed sticking with the auto as well. Kind of leaning toward the dealer echo now, since their price is suddenly looking a lot better.

[justjohn]

Oh, one more thought. I've heard the Jettas with the 1.8L turbo do significantly better than EPA if you don't drive them hard, due to the turbo not coming into effect. Is that true? Because there are a few Jettas around. Should be easier to find a reasonable price on one.