Cash For Clunkers Ends on Monday

[Matt Herring]

Read below...

Obama admin. to end cash for clunkers on Monday

[shovel]

good riddance! There's nothing green about crushing working cars, no matter how bad their fuel mileage.

[Matt Herring]

C4C is tough for me to wrap my head around in terms of its short/long term success/failure...

On the success side of things...
1. Thousands of higher mpg cars (relative to what was traded in) are now on the streets and lower mpg cars (all of which were 18 mpg and below) are off the streets.
2. This might be impossible to put a number on but for each car that was traded in the US immediately eliminated "x" gallons of fuel use from our future dependance. If each new car on the road saves an average of "x" gallons of fuel in a year times the number of cars that were traded in then the US reduced our dependence for that many gallons each year (again...tough to measure without the actual numbers but a step in the right direction for sure).
3. The auto industry got a much needed boost over the past few months with thousands of cars leaving their lots for $3500-4500 (plus any additional profit they are making on the sale price of the car, financing, extras, etc).

On the failure side of things...
1. Some (and from I've seen on the lots most) of the clunkers were cars that could have been used for many years to come. Now they are disabled, scrapped, etc and a huge amount of waste was created.
2. Government programs can be great...but they also can be horrible. Time will tell if the C4C program is a success in terms of reducing consumption and stimulating the economy. Perhaps those that got the new cars will drive less for mpg because they think the new car is that much better than the old and the savings are reduced to near nothing in the end. Perhaps new car sales in the US will now grind to a halt and worsen the auto industries current state.
3. We, as in all tax paying citizens of the US, just took on $3 billion more in debt for us and future generations due to C4C. Those that did not participate in the program essentially paid for those that did. Although we already do this on a daily basis with the taxes we pay this program was for cars...and not for something that sustains life like medicine, food, etc.

Only time will tell in all of this...I am hoping this program was a step in the right direction.

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by Matt Herring

1. Some (and from I've seen on the lots most) of the clunkers were cars that could have been used for many years to come. Now they are disabled, scrapped, etc and a huge amount of waste was created.

Won't they be recycled?

[gc-steve]

One of the goals of the cash 4 clunkers was to raise the national average mpg from 15 to 25 (edit: at least I think it was). Personally I went from a 16 mpg beast to a 38 mpg car. Was my SUV working and running good? Yes. But honestly, I'm glad it is off the road and crushed.

The program obviously helped new car sales, but will most likely hurt used car supply and the availability of good useable used parts. I imagine both used car sales and used parts prices are going to go up a bit due to 250,000 cars being crushed and recycled.

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[Clev]

Originally Posted by gc-steve

One of the goals of the cash 4 clunkers was to raise the national average mpg from 15 to 25 (edit: at least I think it was). Personally I went from a 16 mpg beast to a 38 mpg car. Was my SUV working and running good? Yes. But honestly, I'm glad it is off the road and crushed.

The program obviously helped new car sales, but will most likely hurt used car supply and the availability of good useable used parts. I imagine both used car sales and used parts prices are going to go up a bit due to 250,000 cars being crushed and recycled.

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It's not, though. Only the engine block was required to be destroyed, so the rest of the vehicle can be sold to a recycler and parted out.

[ATaylorRacing]

I am sooooo very happy that some of my tax dollars can help some one in a better financial position than me buy a new car!!! Absolutely S T U P I D !!! If they can buy a new car let them do it on their own. The program should have been set up for US made cars...yes, even Toyota, BMW, Honda, and others. A survey showed that 1/2 of the buyers were going to buy a new car regardless and about 85% had put off their buying for a few months since they heard about the program being in place. If they wanted to make a bigger impact then it would be more financially responsible to give that money to people that have already bought over 40 mpg cars (3 banger Geo), to help us keep them on the road!

[Clev]

I'm hoping that they'll release a list of cars replaced and what they were replaced with. (If not, I'm sure somebody will do a FOIA request.) It'll be interesting to see. Obviously some people replaced one SUV with another, but my local Nissan dealer was advertising Versas for $5,400 with the C4C discount. I have to think that some people just couldn't pass up that deal. (The Yaris would have been similar.)

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Clev

It's not, though. Only the engine block was required to be destroyed, so the rest of the vehicle can be sold to a recycler and parted out.

I believe the entire driveline was not allowed to be sold, but I may be wrong.

The engines had to be seized, but I don't think the parts yards are allowed to sell any part of the driveline at all. They can also only part the cars for 180 days. Moot point, since most yards have their own limits which are either at or close to 180 days anyway. (Shelf life).

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Christ

I believe the entire driveline was not allowed to be sold, but I may be wrong.

The engines had to be seized, but I don't think the parts yards are allowed to sell any part of the driveline at all. They can also only part the cars for 180 days. Moot point, since most yards have their own limits which are either at or close to 180 days anyway. (Shelf life).

EDIT: At the beginning, the drivetrain was off limits. The provisions had changed this month or early last month, making it so that they could be sold, but not as a unit.

The same person could buy the transmission and axles, but they could not be sold together, they had to have been disassembled prior to sale.

Also, the dealers do not have to seize the engines until they are paid the C4C credit back. Once that has occured, they have to seize/report the seizure, then salvage yards have to report the entry of the vehicle, record that the engine was seized, and catalog it, at which point, they have 180 days to salvage/part it out.