Cash for Clunkers results fudging

[ZeroFuel]

Originally Posted by dcb

Folks traded them in knowing the deal, no guns to heads. 700k NEW cars sold as a result plus improved mpg stats for the country.

But you cant tell me that car in 1.5 minutes under load makes more pollution than the other 250,000 miles @ < 18mpg.

Lot of emotional comments, I'm not grieving over the oversized hardware, I kinda enjoyed the video just for it's destructive flair. Was all very contained though, there must have been some more interesting results in the processing of 700k cars.

I was being facetious.

You have to admit that is an idiotic way to dispose of 700k engines.

Here is a CO2 cost analysis of the program. A real bargain.

STUDY: Cash For Clunkers not exactly a bargain, emissions reduction costs 10x more than carbon credits &mdash; Autoblog Green

[gone-ot]

...economics starts at the TOP and trickles (urinal style) DOWN to the rest of us (sometimes).

...seen any relief on your mortgage yet?

[some_other_dave]

Originally Posted by jkp1187

If the government was interested in promoting the purchase of more fuel-efficient vehicles, they'd forget about programs like this and just raise the gasoline tax. The fact that they don't says all you need to know about programs like this one.

No, the fact that they didn't merely shows that they know they'd get booted out of office in an instant if they tried to do that.

-soD

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by ZeroFuel

I was being facetious.

You have to admit that is an idiotic way to dispose of 700k engines.

Meh, someone can still yank it and disassemble it if they really wanna. Replace the bearings/rings, maybe clean up the bores, clean everything else up well, and it'll probably run fine.

Originally Posted by ZeroFuel

Here is a CO2 cost analysis of the program. A real bargain.

STUDY: Cash For Clunkers not exactly a bargain, emissions reduction costs 10x more than carbon credits &mdash; Autoblog Green

Yeah, I never understood looking at Carbon emissions alone. It also reduces HC, NOx, CO, PMx, etc... All of which have some cost savings. Oil consumption, to the tune of a thousand bucks per car per year, and probably saves money through better safety (passenger and driver) too.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

It also reduces HC, NOx, CO, PMx, etc...

Exactly. NOx has recently been declared to be the biggest short-term pollutant to focus on reduction. Carbon emissions can decrease along with lowered overall consumption, but isn't the only emissions concern.

Common sense says that many of these vehicles probably had faulty or poor-performing emissions systems (a CEL fault of a catalytic converter or oxy-sensor failure, in non-emissions tested areas, is last on the list of repairs for many who experience it). Even if these older vehicles were operating at their peak emission-control, the new vehicles with strict controls will put a dent in overall polluntant matter.

RH77

[solarguy]

I just don't like the nice government men sticking their hand down my pocket without my permission and sucking out thousands of bucks to help pay for some other guy's car.

Theft I think they call that. If I had wanted to help you buy a more efficient car, I would have already. Don't make me.

This is not really a political comment in the sense that both the democrats and republicans are guilty.

Finest regards,

troy

[Christ]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Meh, someone can still yank it and disassemble it if they really wanna. Replace the bearings/rings, maybe clean up the bores, clean everything else up well, and it'll probably run fine.
Yeah, I never understood looking at Carbon emissions alone. It also reduces HC, NOx, CO, PMx, etc... All of which have some cost savings. Oil consumption, to the tune of a thousand bucks per car per year, and probably saves money through better safety (passenger and driver) too.

No, they can't. Read the law.

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by Christ

No, they can't. Read the law.

Sure they can, they just need a bit of finagling. The scrap yard would probably be the easiest/cheapest place to pick it up, although j-yard owners can be pretty shady too.

[Christ]

Yep, except that documentation has to be made for each vehicle. They can sell anything EXCEPT the engine/heads from those vehicles. Do you really think they'd sell them and risk their business as a result, when they could just as easily remove the engine from a running copy of the same vehicle?

They have to document the sale of parts from any C4C vehicle, and (according to two of my local yards) the vehicles are inspected prior to final "disposal", to ensure that the paperwork is copacetic.

I'm not saying that some doitch j-yard owner can't screw around the paperwork, but by the time all is said and done, it's just not worth it, especially when most yards sell blown engines for core price, which is a little bit of nothing.

[roflwaffle]

The j-yards may have to document stuff, but the scrap yards don't AFAIK. They have to recycle the engines, and at all the scrap yards I've been in, they don't care if you grab something of the same type when ya drop off a load. It's your weight/payment that it's cutting into.