Cash for Clunkers results fudging

[Daox]

My cousin, who works in a salvage yard is getting ~1200 cars from this program. However, they've siezed the engines in them so that they can't be reused. Body parts etc can be reused though.

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Very interesting. But I'm more happy that the domestics (Ford) did better than reported.
CarloSW2

+1

This was supposed to help our economy after all.

I can't help but notice that the second list looks quite a bit like the ten best selling vehicles list.

[RH77]

Whether or not larger vehicles were bought, it would be interesting to note the reduction in total emissions.

If you trade in a typical 2000 Chevy Silverado V-8 on an '09 with a similar engine, the air pollution score increases from zero, to 6-out-of-10 (According to the EPA). FE doesn't change much, though.

Plus, what is the definition of a "Domestic" vehicle?

One with the most domestic parts, most domestic assembly (Union or otherwise), or does it relate to profit to offshore companies (which could include domestic investors). In any case, the local dealer and service share has increased.

RH77

[Christ]

Not to be the argumentative one, Rick:

What about the smaller businesses that lost business due to those new car sales? In many cases, those older cars would have just been maintained, many times by a local (read: small) shop, but since those cars (many of which were not actually "clunkers" by standard definition, I might add) are now gone, those businesses have to rely on that many hundred thousand less vehicles for their income. Sure, it helped the dealers (many of whom purportedly took advantage of the program in their own interest, thus screwing several people attempting to take advantage of the program for their own benefit.) and the auto makers (marginally, of course), but from a real world POV, it didn't really help anything... it was like spending money to throw things away.

[RH77]

Originally Posted by Christ

Not to be the argumentative one, Rick:

What about the smaller businesses that lost business due to those new car sales?

You, argumentative? Never!

The small business owner is going to continue to get the shaft, by both sides of the aisle in Legislature and overall. Big business has big a big lobby, and thus, gets big attention (including from the Media).

I'm not here to discuss the details of the economic effectiveness of the program -- it's too politically charged for this forum and it's not my forte'. The dealer statement was an attempt to add one more comment into the mix of how local business had been effected. I simply posited the inquiry: "What is a Domestic vehicle", to which I added my domestic manufacturing worldview (which doesn't include the smaller businesses that might supply or transport goods or services into this system). It would get much too complicated.

I say, throw out everything you have heard in the Media, conduct your own research, and then you'll get closer to the truth. Of course, this is not easy for the average Citizen. I assume the "Clunker" receipts are of public record, but I may be wrong.

RH77

[Christ]

I wouldn't even begin to know where to view those receipts... obviously, one would not just walk into a dealer demanding to know what cars were "clunkered".

One could, however, pay a visit to their local junkyard, who probably acquired some of those cars. They'd be the ones clearly marked "C4C" and "Seized" and "Not 4 sale"... Ya know, the ones you can't buy the engine out of... even though there's an identical car sitting right next to it that you can buy the engine from...

[ZeroFuel]

Originally Posted by Daox

My cousin, who works in a salvage yard is getting ~1200 cars from this program. However, they've siezed the engines in them so that they can't be reused. Body parts etc can be reused though.

Yes, check out this video of C4C compliance. By destroying the engine in this fashion they have emitted more pollutants in 2 mins then this car put out in it's whole life time. Now multiply that by 700K.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0IcIxhd8ks

[cfg83]

ZeroFuel -

Originally Posted by ZeroFuel

Yes, check out this video of C4C compliance. By destroying the engine in this fashion they have emitted more pollutants in 2 mins then this car put out in it's whole life time. Now multiply that by 700K.

...

The sieze-solution is water-silica-sand :




It looks like a regular ol' Seafoam treatment to me (sans the happy ending engine results) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D11ZVYwj62w

CarloSW2

[dcb]

Folks traded them in knowing the deal, no guns to heads. 700k NEW cars sold as a result plus improved mpg stats for the country.

But you cant tell me that car in 1.5 minutes under load makes more pollution than the other 250,000 miles @ < 18mpg.

Lot of emotional comments, I'm not grieving over the oversized hardware, I kinda enjoyed the video just for it's destructive flair. Was all very contained though, there must have been some more interesting results in the processing of 700k cars.

[cfg83]

dcb -

Originally Posted by dcb

Folks traded them in knowing the deal, no guns to heads. 700k NEW cars sold as a result plus improved mpg stats for the country.

But you cant tell me that car in 1.5 minutes under load makes more pollution than the other 250,000 miles @ < 18mpg.

Lot of emotional comments, I'm not grieving over the oversized hardware, I kinda enjoyed the video just for it's destructive flair. Was all very contained though, there must have been some more interesting results in the processing of 700k cars.

Yeah. This was a program to help the "new car" part of the automobile industry that is under economic duress. If the majority of people were like us, the new car business would probably go extinct and we'd keep our classics running ad infinitum Cuba style. Personally, I don't mind this, but I'm guessing it would be bad for the "economy", such as it is.

CarloSW2