Certain subjects are immune to logic? - Page 18 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

nayeliesuncle · 03-28-2010, 12:41 AM

I've always thought that humans are the stupidest specie ever.

We have great resources, yet we choose to waste them. Other animals do not do that, yet we call ourselves "superior".

Frank Lee · 03-31-2010, 07:15 PM

Frank Lee · 01-31-2011, 12:40 PM

Palin Kills It in Gun Country - Yahoo! News

Quote:

She admits that she "threw a little politics" into her recent TLC reality show by dragging the crew to the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge on the pretense of hunting caribou. Her real purpose? Showing viewers that ANWR is a "barren, desolate, less-than-pristine place"--perfect, in other words, for lots of new oil drilling. "If a caribou needs to be sacrificed for the sake of energy independence," she adds, "I say, 'Mr. Caribou, maybe you need to take one for the team.'

Oh yes, energy independence here we come!

bestclimb · 01-31-2011, 12:57 PM

I have been in ANWR hunting caribou. Dropped two, they make fine sausage. The area is quite striking. Anyway to get their you have to fly from the road system way over there. Along the way before we got to anwr we saw a couple drilling rigs, a few exploratory platforms and what not. I Saw more caribou near old and current drilling sites than once we got into the refuge. Old drilling sites by the way are a slightly raised square patch of tundra with a metal "Christmas tree" sticking out of it. From 500 feet AGL you have to know what your looking for and be looking in the right spot to even see it. On our hunting trip we took a drive up to Deadhorse for some supplies and to see the sights. Lots of caribou and musk ox on the drive up, some near, some far from drilling activity. The two uses are not mutually exclusive.

Currently the AK pipeline is running well below capacity, and that is causing a few issues. Developing ANWR would get a bit more utilization out of the pipe which means fewer issues. It would also give Alaska a bit more time widen it's economic base (which is already beginning)

Frank Lee · 01-31-2011, 01:00 PM

From my POV the pristine-ness or lack thereof is almost irrelevant. I am pointing out the striking lack of candor (or striking amount of willful ignorance) it takes to promote ANWR drilling as any sort of answer to U.S. oil supply issues.

jamesqf · 01-31-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

I am pointing out the striking lack of candor (or striking amount of willful ignorance) it takes to promote ANWR drilling as any sort of answer to U.S. oil supply issues.

Yes. The country gets to keep burning cheap(er) oil for a few years, then are right back to where we are now. It relates to energy independence in the same way that taking out a home equity loan does to financial independence.

bestclimb · 01-31-2011, 01:11 PM

Regardless of if it will allow energy Independence or not (it won't) is not a case for drilling or not. The case for drilling needs to come from an estimation on how environmental safe it is, and the economic value that risk is worth.

Frank Lee · 01-31-2011, 01:16 PM

Nobody is presenting it as such because to do so would reveal that the movers and shakers of the deal would be the only ones to financially benefit... and that would be a tougher sell.

Frank Lee · 01-31-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Yes. The country gets to keep burning cheap(er) oil for a few years, then are right back to where we are now. It relates to energy independence in the same way that taking out a home equity loan does to financial independence.

I've read cheap(er) by maybe a penny, as it's a global commodity.

tim3058 · 01-31-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bestclimb

I have been in ANWR hunting caribou....I Saw more caribou near old and current drilling sites than once we got into the refuge. Old drilling sites by the way are a slightly raised square patch of tundra with a metal "Christmas tree" sticking out of it. From 500 feet AGL you have to know what your looking for and be looking in the right spot to even see it. On our hunting trip we took a drive up to Deadhorse for some supplies and to see the sights. Lots of caribou and musk ox on the drive up, some near, some far from drilling activity. The two uses are not mutually exclusive....

My buddy's father served at an air base in Alaska - the pipeline ran near or through the base, I don't recall which. He told us beyond the perimeter fence the caribou and other big game could be seen congregating near the pipeline, apparently they liked the hum, or the warmth or something.
Would mesh well with your description.