Certain subjects are immune to logic?

[gone-ot]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

...then have more fun playing with the discarded wrapping paper.

...well, in the end, it looks like they find the "real" joy of Christmas--the "...simple, little things."

[Frank Lee]

How to wrap a cat - Snotr

[gone-ot]

...now, *that* was one tolerant Kitty-cat--I'm impressed!

[thatguitarguy]

That defies logic...

[Christ]

Re: The wrapping paper -

Everyone notices this - but noone ever actually pays attention to it. I don't understand this at all.

My 9 month old's favorite toy is a cardboard box. He stands up on it. Well, he stands up on everything, actually, but he loves that box. He puts his toys in it, then takes them back out. He puts everything in that box, then takes it back out.

It's simple, and he likes it. That's all I need.

[Frank Lee]

To Save Endangered Species, Wear a Condom -- Politics Daily

Want a good laugh while learning a bit about human overpopulation, a not very funny topic? I highly recommend Dave Gardner's video on Endangered Species Condoms.

Using a light touch to lay out a serious issue, Gardner stops people on the street to chat about the dangers of overpopulation -- particularly how it is crowding out the rest of the animal kingdom -- and to hand out condoms with a message: Save an endangered species by checking human procreation. He is acting in conjunction with the Center for Biological Diversity, which last month began distributing 100,000 packages of free condoms with original artwork and such aphorisms as "Wrap with care, save the polar bear," and "Hump smarter, save the snail darter."

But the video raises a question that I believe our culture and media ignore at their peril. And ignore we do! Since the 1960s and 1970s, when human overpopulation in the United States was regularly addressed in the media, it has become politically incorrect to discuss the matter in public. In fact, it's more politically correct to curse, name-call or go ballistic online or in public than address this most-important of issues, according to polite society.

More on why that has happened in another column, and back to the video by Gardner, the anti-growth activist, blogger and filmmaker who is working on a documentary project called "Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity.'' His condom video shows us how ignorant most Americans are of overpopulation and how most of us become indignant when the topic is raised. His series of man/woman-on-the-street interviews are funny to watch, but not so funny to one who is intimately aware of our collective lack of action.

Gardner limits his video to one point about human overpopulation: that we are wiping out species by destroying habitat, paving over open space and abusing natural and non-renewable resources. Polling has shown over the years that while some Americans care about bio-diversity, that is not the best way to get America to take overpopulation seriously.

A more compelling argument and one that resonates heartily with the self-absorbed public is that while destroying large chunks of the environment, we are also making the quality of life much worse for our own species. We are increasing traffic and traffic jams, carving up farmland that once produced locally grown foods, destroying and polluting local streams and water sources, and creating if not adding to that most vexing and seemingly unstoppable of environmental problems: climate change.

Still, Americans would rather fiddle while the country (if not the planet) burns -- no lessons learned from Nero's inaction.

Occasionally a species goes extinct and catches the attention of at least a small segment of our citizenry. I was horrified to learn that the last known wild jaguar in the U.S. was killed last year. Poor "Macho B" (as he was named by concerned local citizens in Arizona) had to endure the fate of having no other big cats to hang with, or with whom he could mate and procreate. He was "euthanized" by a state game agency after veterinarians said he had a severe and incurable kidney failure.

To honor his life and spread the critical message about saving endangered jaguars, the Center for Biological Diversity staff and supporters marched late last year in Tucson's 20th annual All Souls' Procession -- an event celebrating El Día de los Muertos, a Mexican holiday to honor the dead.

I remember reading about Macho B's death last year and being so overcome I could not think or write about it. Jaguars used to roam South America up and into almost the entire south and central U.S. They were worshiped by the ancient Mayans and Aztecs. They were hunted into extinction in the East 300 years ago. But Macho B managed to hang on as the last of his kind until 2009. This species was both hunted and habitat-deprived into extinction.

Despite the wonderful work of the Center for Biological Diversity and a sprinkling of environmental groups devoted to species and land conservation, we are in an era of unprecedented species devastation. It's all caused by the overpopulation of one species: our own.

At 6.8 billion people, the human race is the most populous large mammal on Earth, and providing for the needs and wants of this many people, the center says, has pushed man to absorb 50 percent of the planet's fresh water and develop 50 percent of its land mass. As a result, other species are running out of places to live.

"Under relentless pressure from exploding human populations, species are going extinct at 100 to 1,000 times the natural rate,'' the Center for Biological Diversity said. "The diversity of life that sustains both ecological systems and human cultures around the world is collapsing, and the Center's programs to save unique species and lands now reach beyond American borders from the Antarctic to the North Pole and Asia to North Africa.''

I wish we could rely on environmental leaders to take up the U.S. overpopulation issue once more. But for the most part, they have deserted it quicker than soldiers fleeing a hand grenade with the pin removed. Last week I interviewed a board member of a prominent American land conservation group and asked her how her group handles U.S. overpopulation and its impact on preserving open space and farmland. She side-stepped the population issue and said it's more of a problem in the East than out West and somehow we'll muddle through. No we won't. Dave Gardner gets that. I hope more fellow Americans start understanding the cost soon, too.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Christ

Re: The wrapping paper -
My 9 month old's favorite toy is a cardboard box. He stands up on it. Well, he stands up on everything, actually, but he loves that box. He puts his toys in it, then takes them back out. He puts everything in that box, then takes it back out.

It's simple, and he likes it. That's all I need.

Actually kids will have more fun with imagination than things that has always been true and oddly enough I would estimate 99% of modern marvels are actually not that much of an addition to our adult lives either, they do make them more complex and time consuming though.

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

To Save Endangered Species, Wear a Condom -- Politics Daily

I agree with Frank population reduction should be on the table, unfortunately only education can VERY slowly change peoples minds. We must remember there are many who have children knowing full well they have no ability to provide for them, yet feel its their right anyway.

This selfishness of a form is the problem and is a core of many peoples beliefs, they inherently believe they can so it is a right and not a privilege.

Without the formal centuries family structures imposed on us, there are a lot of ******* children running around and no one the wiser. Unless you can find a way to fight stupidity, impress family values and irresponsibility, some smack down would be needed to cause conformity to the extent that I'm not sure we can go there.

Trouble is EVERY time in history that the population expanded beyond the ability of the area to provide for the population war and pestilence has broken out bringing the population into control. Because of modern tech we have been able to bypass this somewhat but we are only amassing more problems and making the troubles more severe once we no longer can cope.

I guess it more likely we are going to go on the way we are until something massive forces change like war, disease, etc.

We already have many many people in this country that are very sick I don't think it would take much for that to tip should one support or another fail. Also the fact that our government is trying to figure out how much fake deadly protein can be in our food and already allows it to be fed to beef and pigs a few weeks before slaughter we likely are going to start dying from the crap they put in our food before anything else. Then the blasted nano-food technology that is in the food but not on the lable.

In other words I doubt it possible to convince people to take responsibility for their actions and keep the population in check voluntarily. I think it much more likely our population will drop massively once the floor falls.

The sad part is, in history when population dropped dramatically the poorest peoples benefited massively with more food, land, freedom (at least for a time) No telling them that though, they want the opposite for some reason.

We could have much cleaner, healthier, more prosperous lives if we could learn to keep it in our pants, trouble is everyone would have to do the same.

Cheers
Ryan

[ton]

are people ever rational?

[Bicycle Bob]

Economists, in their models of civilization, assume that people act according to enlightened self-interest. When sociologists test this hypothesis, they find that only economists and psychopaths maximize their gains. Others expect to trade favours, which is best for the whole group, if the greedheads don't skim off too much.

[Frank Lee]

I just came home from an event in a city. I'm not used to cities. Anyway, I finally get through that cluster**** to a restaurant for a bite. I thought it was grueling, all that stopping and idling and waiting, not to mention a few wrong turns on my part... but I got there and no sooner after getting to my table and starting to unwind a bit does a gaggle of kids start churning up the atmosphere at the next table. Hmm, they were the same kids I'd seen moments before outside, acting happier than pigs in poo because they found an 8 sq. ft. spot of grass amongst the concrete and traffic to roll around on. Anyhow there's one family unit there of 6, another of 5, etc. and I'm sitting there wondering, do they not notice THE SHOULDER-TO-SHOULDER LUNACY THEY'RE SURROUNDED BY and the correlation of that to their fertility?!? MAN I can't wait to escape back into the sticks.

Had ample time to ponder the millions or hundreds of millions of idling cylinders- not propelling anything- that are going at any given point in time too.