Cheap used (C.R.A.P.) Prius hunting adventure - UPDATE: got one!

[MetroMPG]

Have you had the chance to drive one? They respond fantastically well to ecodriving or hypermiling techniques. Definitely not stuck at 51 mpg.

Edit, just an example:

On the 100% city route I use for ecodriving coaching...

• 40 mpg US in a 2007 Civic LX 5-speed, using moderate techniques. It's EPA rated at 26 city. (45 mpg was doable with more advanced stuff, like engine-off coasting.)

• 72 mpg US in a 2013 Lexus 200h (think: 3rd gen Prius wearing fancy clothes), EPA rated 43 city, on the same route. (With a driver who understood gliding.)

And while hybrids are definitely closer to peak potential out of the box than the typical Accord or Corolla, they're also definitely not at their peak. There's still lots of room for mods/improvement and people around here are doing just that.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Yessir! I'm on the hunt for a Prius.

About 3/4 of the cars listed on CL in my area have a rebuilt title. These cars can be had for about 70% of the non-branded price. I bought my 2012 plug-in model for $13k with a rebuilt title. It has been perfect so far, with full range on the battery, MPG as expected, and all features in working order.

The oldest model I was looking at was a 2007 since there was a mid-model refresh that year, with more options being made standard. I'm a tech-geek, so I like my Bluetooth, and require heated seats for my wife.

Our requirements for a vehicle are likely different. One thing is true though, you have to jump on the good deals quick and be prepared to pay in cash. It never hurts to propose lowball offers on any car you see. The guy I bought from wanted $1.5k more, I offered $13k, he countered with $13.5k, and I didn't budge from my $13k offer. Eventually he accepted.

I spent a little more than I wanted on a vehicle, but I just couldn't resist the extremely rare Plug-in. This was a good way for me to learn about EV tech without the range limitations.

I'm now hooked and will eventually replace my most excellent TSX with a used EV.

[MetroMPG]

There's one rebuilt Prius within driving range that I have on my watch list: a 2004 with 200k kms (120k miles), asking $4500. It's been listed for a couple of weeks.

The main thing that makes me leery of a salvage/rebuilt title is my goal of reselling the car in a year or two and breaking even. The fact it hasn't yet sold at $4.5k tells me people are shy about the rebuilt status. If I were planning a purchase to keep/drive into the ground, I'd have inquired about it already.

I'm super envious of your plug-in. It would suit my driving patterns very well. Small city = high range not needed. I could probably do 100% of my relatively infrequent local trips electrically, and then get great mileage on the open road.

[Chrysler kid]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Have you had the chance to drive one? They respond fantastically well to ecodriving or hypermiling techniques. Definitely not stuck at 51 mpg.

Edit, just an example:

On the 100% city route I use for ecodriving coaching...

• 40 mpg US in a 2007 Civic LX 5-speed, using moderate techniques. It's EPA rated at 26 city. (45 mpg was doable with more advanced stuff, like engine-off coasting.)

• 72 mpg US in a 2013 Lexus 200h (think: 3rd gen Prius wearing fancy clothes), EPA rated 43 city, on the same route. (With a driver who understood gliding.)

And while hybrids are definitely closer to peak potential out of the box than the typical Accord or Corolla, they're also definitely not at their peak. There's still lots of room for mods/improvement and people around here are doing just that.

Oh I agree they are great cars to drive and own but they also are all automatics.

Just because cars are newer doesnt make them more efficient. I would go for a gen 2 as I believe you said you have already owned an echo

[RedDevil]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

See "Criteria" in post 1: there ain't no $4000 2nd gen Insights around!

Although I have seen more than a few Civic hybrid CVT's in that range.

But I'm just not a big fan of Honda's CVT IMA hybrid approach. (I'm not at all enamoured with my parents' 2009 Civic hybrid.)

I want true EV mode, and true ICE-off, 1-pedal pulse & glide ability. It's time to play with a Prius.

I know, have seen that thread. Yet, the Insight is a good deal lighter and has an improved battery and IMA management. Same engine, less weight and a better battery make a lot of difference.
My parents bought a Jazz Hybrid which shares it platform with the Insight, but is 40 kg lighter. It is a blast to drive even compared to the Insight, while it is just a tad lighter.

But the Insight has a true EV mode all right - the motor is bolted to the camshaft so the engine turns over but it uses no fuel. The head has a special VTEC camshaft to reduce friction in DFCO/EV mode.
I can accelerate in EV mode up to 30 mph and sustain speed/prolong glides at basically any speed.
But you have little control over the EV mode. The IMA system decides when to use it though you can to some extent influence it by playing with the throttle. And there is no EV assist under 10 mph - a consequence of having the motor bolted to the engine rather than the gearbox, where the motors can run at very low speed, making EV creep very economical.

You can pulse and (assist) glide but on light throttle the CVT maxes out running very low revs; I get best economy at 35 mph, 1100 RPM, constant speed. It will
The Prius HSD has to compensate with its planetary gears and motors to get a 'constant' RPM that low, hence P&G benefit the Prius more.

I do like the sophistication of the Prius concept, but admire the IMA system for its relative simplicity and the way it compensates for the CVT's weaknesses while making good use of its benefits. It offers pretty much what a Prius offers for 3/4 of the price.
I hated autos and CVT's in particular so I avoided the Honda hybrids altogether until I lost heart trying to buy an economical small diesel I could live with. Test drove one on a whim - the rest is history.

Whatever you want to buy, drive it and drive it well!
Nothing worse than buying a car in a hurry to find it drives like a pig after you let the money go.
Nice as the Jazz hybrid was, there were noticeable handling differences between the ones my parents took for a spin; one of them fell through for just that.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

How about $500 obo ?
I have a good engine to swap in, the only good thing left on my parts car.

Everytime I see some mention to a $500 Prius, that's what comes across my mind:

[MetroMPG]

2 of the 6 cars I've considered had cosmetic damage of some kind (bad enough that the seller mentioned it).

I was sorely tempted by this low-kilometers 2008 Prius that had a full-length, dent/gash on the driver's side, but it was just too far away (4 hrs) to seriously consider. The ad said "not branded", so for whatever reason the they hadn't gotten their insurance company involved.

Looks like the "incident" started at the A-pillar, took off the outside mirror, possibly broke the driver's window, and ends on the C-pillar.

They were asking $4k.

[Fat Charlie]

2001 Toytoa Prius Hyrid For Sale ! - $1200 - Boston

2001 Toyota Prius Hyrid
Mileages: around 247k
Needs O2 sensor to pass inspection!
Runs good! Save $$$ on gas !

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by Chrysler kid

...but they also are all automatics.

I hear you. But I'll make an exception to my personal "no automatics" rule in the case of a hybrid. They're rolling video games, and I find that learning how to manage the various engine/e-motor/regen/glide modes to squeeze out high mileage is engaging in the way shifting your own gears is engaging. Different but similar.

I believe you said you have already owned an echo

Actually, no Echos in my Toyota history. But I briefly had an '86 Tercel, and for a few years after school a rusted out '85 Camry. Both 5-speeds.

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by Chrysler kid

The prius seems like a good car but is already at its peak potential. They get 51 mpg out of the box but don't seem to go higher than that.

I disagree with that assessment, especially having lived with a Prius for almost a year and a half now. Aside from evidence like this, I find it relatively easy to beat the EPA rating as long as one drives mindfully--the same as any car. And you can beat it handily; on that Priuschat thread, there are four cars that have returned tank averages over 90mpg.

Another misconception is that hybrids are great for in-town mileage, but can't compete in steady-state highway driving. But, hybrids almost universally have lower drag coefficients than their conventional counterparts, LRR tires, inherently more efficient combustion engines, etc. The last highway trip I took, last October, my car returned 70.7mpg (according to the Scangauge, not the optimistic factory display) on a 500-mile, 60-65mph, all-freeway trip, and all my highest tanks so far came when my commute was 100+ miles of freeway commute.