cheaper to operate than an electric car?

[sendler]

Sorry for the decimal place error. I pay about $.125 for electricity with all fees and taxes at the bottom of my bill.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by sendler

Every little bit helps shift the paradigm.

But it's the early adopter problem, kinda like my problem with CFL lights. I put them in just about every socket in my house, starting back in the mid-90s when they were $15 or so each. Now I'd prefer the even more efficient LEDs (and have them for a few places like the kitchen, where the improved daylight light quality really helps), but the darn CFLs just won't burn out, and it'd be a waste to replace them...

Same with the Insight: bought it back about '03 (way ahead of the curve, there :-)) and it just keeps on running. Sure, if I had some 20-30 mpg guzzler, it might make sense to replace it with a new(ish!) EV, but to spend that much money for a marginal improvement? (Not to mention the range limitations.)

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by sheepdog 44

I just did the math and it turns out that gas is so cheap right now that my 01 Insight costs less to operate than an electric car. If you get at least 54.4mpg, at $2.22 per gallon of gas and 14.07¢ per KWH of electricity, then you are equal to the fueling cost of an electric car.

At ~65mpg my car costs me a little over half a cent less at 3.4¢ per mile vs 4¢ per mile. Gas would need to rise 48¢ per gallon before i have an equal operating cost to an electric car. But even at current gas prices my Moms Prius could easily hit 54.4mpg or be not far off with her commute of nice rolling hills.

It's not something you think about because it's usually assumed an electric car costs less to operate than a gas or hybrid car. In my case it does not right now, and if you drive a Prius you might be close. Moral of the story is enjoy cheap gas while it lasts, it won't be for long.

The math:
2.22 / ((.1407 x 33.04) / 114) = 54.44
current gas price / (( cents per KWH x KWH in a gallon of gas) / Combined epa of Nissan Leaf) = the mpg you would need to equal the fueling cost of an EV

You can find out what your equivalent mpg goal for fueling cost would be by pasting this into google 2.22 / ((.1407 x 33.04) / 114) and changing for your mpg and kwh electricity costs.

It is more accurate to do the math for an electric car on its own:

My lifetime average in our Leaf is 141.8MPGe = 237.6 Wh/mile. The official EPA equivalency is 33.7kWh / gallon of gasoline. Using your 14.07¢ / kWh price, that is 4.2 miles / kWh. So 14.07¢ / 4.2 = 3.35¢ / mile.

Also, you need to add in regular maintenance costs; which is essentially $0 for an EV. Angie's List says oil changes average $46, so 46 / 5000 = ~0.92¢ / mile. At 3000 miles, that is ~1.53¢ / mile. Tuneups cost more.

[Ecky]

I use Mobile One 0w-20 in my Insight, and change it every 10,000 miles. 5 quarts runs about $25, and I can get ~2 oil changes out of a 5 quart jug. An oil filter runs ~$4. At 30,000 miles per year, I'm spending about $50 on maintenance.

My car came with service records going back to day one, and apparently other than having the hybrid battery replaced under warranty in 2010 (southern car) and tires, the only things that have ever been done to it (other than replace an axle, control arm and wheel my wife damaged in an accident) are that I replaced the clutch master, at about $60 from RockAuto, tires, and a $90 rear engine mount. I bought new brake pads because they were on sale for ~$5 each but the factory brakes still had tread left at 200,000 miles.


I think $150 in parts and $350 in oil over 210,000 miles seems pretty reasonable to me.

[NeilBlanchard]

You are spending more than I am on [regular] maintenance - we have spent $0 in 50K miles.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

You are spending more than I am on maintenance - we have spent $0 in 50K miles.

You have a fairly new vehicle, no? Wait a few years, and you'll be getting into shocks & suspension wear, just like an IC vehicle. Then you'll perhaps get into the 12-volt battery problem...

Really, the biggest maintenance problem I have with the Insight is having to pull out the battery pack every couple of years, and go through the several days long process of rebalancing the cells. This costs nothing (beyond the initial $100 or so for the equipment) because I do it myself, but could be a big expense if I had to pay someone else. That certainly wasn't a problem (or even a known thing) when the Insight was new; it's something that people discovered after years of use.

[roosterk0031]

I'm at ($620, all but $10 oil, air and oil filters) $0.0037/mile all maintenance and repairs on my Cobalt that a EV couldn't have in 165,000 miles with a $7,000 car. Only other repairs have been 2 wheel bearings and a control arm. $11,500+ in fuel used though. ($0.13-14 per mile total cost except tires, insurance & registration that a EV would also have)

Niel's Forest would use $5,500 at the $0.1407 rate to go the same distance.

[sendler]

Right now gas is obviously way too cheap in the USA. There is no real incentive for Joe Public to even think twice about wasting it.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

You have a fairly new vehicle, no? Wait a few years, and you'll be getting into shocks & suspension wear, just like an IC vehicle. Then you'll perhaps get into the 12-volt battery problem...

We are talking about regular maintenance. An EV drivetrain has about 15 moving parts, with very little wear and tear, and no vibration, and almost no waste heat. By definition, it will have less long term problems.

[Ecky]

Frankly I can't wait for gas to go back up so I have a solid financial incentive to build/buy an EV. Until then it's a hobby. Even if both vehicles were free and the EV had unlimited range, the TCO of an EV would still be higher where I live due to high electricity prices. If I did mostly city driving or lived somewhere with cheap electricity, that would be another matter.