cheaper to operate than an electric car?

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Because whenever we show (with real-world data) that vehicle X is cheaper than an EV, you all come back with specious arguments that it's not comparable, even though it performs the same task equally well.

...and every time I show that the cherry-picked example cars aren't comparable, you simply say that YOU don't care for the extra seating capacity, or luxury amenities.

Now we're back to me re-itterating that, in general, it's cheaper to operate an EV than a comparable oil burner (range limitations aside).

You seem to imply that it's never the case that an EV is the cheaper option for some people. If that's what you mean, then clearly state that (and I will provide abundant evidence that you're wrong).

I'll state my position in a simplified way. An EV of a certain shape and rolling resistance is cheaper to operate per mile driven than its combustion engine counterpart, for the majority of people in the US, the majority of the time.

It's true in my case, where it costs me $0.04/mile to drive my Prius with gas, and $0.02/mile on electricity. Furthermore, I pay nothing in maintenance for the EV portion of my drivetrain per year, but have to pay for regular oil changes for the combustion portion of my drivetrain.

The thread title is about which is cheaper to operate, not which is cheaper to purchase, not which is cheaper when a catastrophic failure occurs. Based on this topic, the most relevant thing to consider is the cost per mile driven on gasoline compared to the cost per mile driven on electrons. Usually electrons are cheaper, sometimes gasoline is.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The thread title is about which is cheaper to operate, not which is cheaper to purchase, not which is cheaper when a catastrophic failure occurs. Based on this topic, the most relevant thing to consider is the cost per mile driven on gasoline compared to the cost per mile driven on electrons. Usually electrons are cheaper, sometimes gasoline is.

By that definition there is a Nissan dealer here that sells new cars with one year preventative maintenance and 6 months free gas. So if I buy a new one every 6 months BOOM! zero operation cost beating anything you could throw out there. Probably still costs less than a Tesla S.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

It's true in my case, where it costs me $0.04/mile to drive my Prius with gas, and $0.02/mile on electricity. Furthermore, I pay nothing in maintenance for the EV portion of my drivetrain per year...

But put all those saved maintenance expenses in the bank, in order to (partially) cover one big battery replacement a number of years down the road.

The thread title is about which is cheaper to operate, not which is cheaper to purchase, not which is cheaper when a catastrophic failure occurs.

Well, that's been my point all along. Figuring operating cost as just electricity vs gas is misleading.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by sendler

Let's talk a new car since most people in the US want new cars. And can't work on them themselves anymore so they have to take them to the dealer...

So we're changing the ground from the folks on Ecomodder (who aren't average), to the least-common-denominator marching moron? Then I agree that for those people an EV might well be cheaper in day-to-day operating costs, but they're quite likely to be paying a lot more up front.

The average person is becoming science and mechanical illiterate.

And just about everything else illiterate :-(

[NeilBlanchard]

The true costs of fossil fuel is MUCH higher than the cost at the pump. As our grid gets cleaner and cleaner, so do EV's.

And after I get solar panels on my house - I will be driving for less than 1¢ per mile AND my solar panels will pay for themselves in just a few years.

[Xist]

Has anyone compared total cost for cars available as gas\diesel and electric? People have recently mentioned the Fiat and Golf.

[roosterk0031]

Originally Posted by Xist

Has anyone compared total cost for cars available as gas\diesel and electric? People have recently mentioned the Fiat and Golf.

Have at it Leaf vs Versa Note, don't think anything closer in the states.

I checked MSRP Note SV 16,300 Leaf SV 31,000. Quick math say it takes 304,000 miles to break even at 38 mpg & $2.00 gas on purchase price assuming electricty is free.

[redpoint5]

Edmunds says the 5 year cost of ownership is $2,000 cheaper on the Versa than the Leaf. I'm guessing that is due to the crazy depreciation of the Leaf. However, if you happen to be buying a 3 year old Leaf vs a 3 year old Versa, I would think the figures are reversed. A used Leaf is silly cheap these days.

Also, the Leaf comes with many more amenities than the Versa such as heated seats, rear view camera, climate control, heated mirrors... all things that would cost more than $2,000 in upgrades if the Versa even offered them.

2016 Nissan Versa Note Hatchback: True Cost to Own | Edmunds

2016 Nissan Leaf Hatchback: True Cost to Own | Edmunds

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by roosterk0031

Have at it Leaf vs Versa Note, don't think anything closer in the states.

I checked MSRP Note SV 16,300 Leaf SV 31,000. Quick math say it takes 304,000 miles to break even at 38 mpg & $2.00 gas on purchase price assuming electricty is free.

How is there nothing closer then two different Nissans? Ford makes an electric Focus and a gas Focus. There is an electric Fiat 500 and a gas. There is an electric Chevy Spark and a gas one. There is a Kia Soul electric and gas. And finally there is a Smart electric and gas.

The Ford Focus gas can be had as low as $16,775 (an average SE automatic is about $20,000 msrp), the electric is $29,120
According to Ford a 39 month lease with 12,000 miles a year no down is $245 on the base and $354 on the electric. The gas gets 31 mpg combined or 33 gallons a month at 12,000 miles a year. Average price for a gallon of Focus gas is $2.19 or about $71/month. Add that to $245 and you have $316 and $38/month savings over the electric. About a $1500 savings over the life of the lease. Now if you can get a better tax rebate because the electric then that $1500 might be easy to offset, oh and about $50/year for oil, throw that in there. The E version is nicer as well (why don't they just make a stripped version though, what are they hiding?)
Personally I know I could do a lot better then the $245 base lease deal, while the electric version looked like a special program with a big rebate cooked in already (I would imagine because a $30,000 focus is currently a tough sell compared to a Tesla X.)

[Ecky]

A used Leaf does seem to have some great value, but in this thread it was already discussed how the Leaf's battery pack is poor and prone to degradation not seen in other EVs.