The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[Xist]

According to this page (https://www.treehugger.com/solar-tec...ovoltaics.html), solar heating is ten times as efficient as solar electric and a rooftop unit adequate for a family of four would cost 3,000. That was nine years ago.

How much have things changed?

[oil pan 4]

Ha, I was being way too optimistic.
I would pass on 3 to 4kw of solar for $20k.

I still need to look up roof racks to see if I should ground mount.
Goal is to get the most solar for the least $.

I am considering solar water heating because it's so cheap compared to PV. But it will take up a lot of room.

[sendler]

The Free Market...
.
https://youtu.be/Wnx9NfowCXc?t=15s
.
Something roars in the distance
An ominous sound
Of chaos and people crying their lungs out
Heard from all around

The truth is hard to take
Too blind to discover

Disciples of the sun
Set out to catch the fire
A journey has begun
As flames break loose
They’re forced to reacquire
The reins of order

Every rule was abandoned
By our wants and needs
Now we fight for ourselves, regardless of others
A string of dirty deeds

The streets were paved with gold
Until our greed took over

Disciples of the sun
Set out to catch the fire
A journey has begun
As flames break loose
They’re forced to reacquire
The reins of order

Disciples of the sun
Set out to catch the fire
A journey has begun
As flames break loose
They’re forced to reacquire
The reins of order
Disciples of the sun
As flames break loose
Set out to catch the fire
It has begun...

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by Xist

How much have things changed?

Things change everyday,. today it's: https://www.greennh3.com/

Their page is un-navagable even with Javascript turned on. (in this browser at this time, jadda jadda) but here's the story http://readyforanything.org:

Canadian Inventor Roger Gordon Creates Cutting-Edge Green Gas Manufacturing Appliance For The Home

Canadian inventor Roger Gordon, has created an incredible new device that has the potential to change the way the world views fuel production along with offering a green alternative to fossil fuel that can break the bonds of foreign energy dependency forever.

His invention, the Green Gas Machine produces a substance called NH3 (anhydrous ammonia) — simply stated, NH3 is ammonia without water. This natural substance was once used to power trucks, buses and farm equipment. (NH3 powered schoolbus pictured below)

NH3 (anhydrous ammonia) burns without releasing carbon because it can't. They elide over the fact that it is a precursor chemical, if yaknowhatImean.

In other news nano-scale sorting may be more complex than I thought:

phys.org: Valves for tiny particles

Newly developed nanovalves allow the flow of individual nanoparticles in liquids to be controlled in tiny channels. This is of interest for lab-on-a-chip applications such as in materials science and biomedicine.

In any case, times a-wastin':

technologyreview.com: The world can’t afford to wait for an energy miracle/

The cost of shifting to clean energy will skyrocket unless we begin making investments and long-term plans to deploy advanced technologies now, according to a new study.

The findings: The paper, published today in Nature Energy by researchers at the Imperial College London, explored a range of simulated scenarios for the British power system. The authors found that transitioning to zero-carbon electricity will cost 61 percent more by 2050 if we rely only on short-term strategies and existing clean technologies, like wind, solar, and nuclear.

Why? Such an approach would lock in a less-than-optimal mix of energy sources over time, ultimately requiring far more energy-generating capacity and supporting infrastructure.

On the other hand: Coupling “unicorn technologies” that have been demonstrated but not widely commercialized with long-term, systems-wide planning could reduce total costs 13 percent by midcentury (see “Praying for an energy miracle”). Those technologies could include tools to capture and store carbon dioxide, small modular nuclear reactors that can adjust plant output to match shifting demand, and battery storage with the capacity and durability to meet the daily needs of the grid.

The lyric running through my head:

Afraid to lose control
Caught up in this world
I've wasted time, I've wasted breath
I think I've thought myself to death
Born without this fear
Now only this seems clear
I need to move, I need to fight, I need to lose myself tonight
....
I think with my heart and I move with my head
I open my mouth and it's something I've read
I've stood at this door before I'm told
but a part of me knows that I'm growing too old
Confused what I thought was something I felt
Confused what I feel with something that's real....

KONGOS - Come With Me Now

[Xist]

Anhydrous ammonia sounds interesting.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by sendler

The Free Market...

My outlook on the future is somewhere between sendler's Mad Max dystopia, and a techno utopia. In other words, I expect the future to be like it is today, but slightly better.

[oil pan 4]

Only problem now is the cheapest source for the hydrogen used to make ammonia is natural gas and that will probably continue to be the case for about the next 50 years.
So just burn the natural gas in the internal combustion engine.

If we adhere to the anti carbon religion then look forward to a mad max to fallout serries future.
If we use nuclear power maybe more like blade runner.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by freebeard

In any case, times a-wastin':

technologyreview.com: The world can’t afford to wait for an energy miracle/

Right now we have an energy wealth that can build big things like wind turbines and reactors and dams. But we are not building fossil fuel's replacement fast enough because we are stuck in big debt and a free market system that can only use energy according to what is most profitable. Including things like luxury cruise ships, luxury high rise buildings, sports stadiums, and gaining digits which can never be spent in 100 lifetimes in the already filthy rich's bank accounts.
.
When the price of liquid fuel is 5X in 30 years we will be stuck in an energy trap just struggling to grow enough food that anyone can afford with no surplus to invest in adding hydro or installing giant wind turbines and 1,000's of miles of wire.

[oil pan 4]

30 years?
Ha. Should we be so lucky. More like 10 to 15 years.

[sendler]

You could be right. I'm trying to give the most optimistic estimates. 2040-2050 for sure. Everything changes.