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Old 05-23-2018, 02:11 PM   #1831 (permalink)
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I was being way too optimistic or got grid scale #s confused with roof top. A roof top install runs more like $3+ per watt, not $2 per watt like I was thinking. So $10k gets you around 3kw installed on your roof.
I may do ground mount since I have most of what I need just laying around.

I think I can do it for really close to $2 per watt since I have most if not all the supplies to do ground mount, all the wire I would need bought at scrap prices.

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Old 05-23-2018, 02:40 PM   #1832 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
A program on China's solar industry showed a photovoltaic farm with grid-scale batteries during a cloud transit.
The output was a flatline,with batteries filling the void as PV power fell off until the sun 'came back.'
It was seamless!
Doesn't impress me much. Dealing with a cloud transit is child's play compared to weeks of overcast, not to mention just dealing with night. No mention of cost, either. I can accomplish anything if you give me enough money.

Battery systems are probably necessary to buffer up to a couple minutes of erratic power supply / demand, but it's no good for providing hours of power.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:48 PM   #1833 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler
Please try to familiarize yourself with the scale of our energy consumption.... It just does not add up. By a factor of 10. This wishful thinking without ever running the numbers is impeding logical discussion of what really can be done to come down for a softer landing after liquid fuel leaves us.
I was bicycling along and a jacked-up pick'emup drove by 'rolling coal', and I thought "that's a bad state of tune". We are both part of the statistics.

Half of the problem is using Scott Adams-level persuasion techniques to shift public perception, not Google-style algorithmic manipulations.

The other half is getting the Boring Company to create [a] water[s] tunnel from the Pacific to Death Valley so 'Murica can live off that sweet, sweet Algal diesel.
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Old 05-23-2018, 02:53 PM   #1834 (permalink)
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scale

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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
Please try to familiarize yourself with the scale of our energy consumption. It would take 130,000 square miles of land and 75 million roof tops (if there were that many pointing south which there aren't). And 1 million, 2.5 MW wind turbines and 50,000 grid scale solar farms. Just to replace all energy for the USA. And then rebuild every wind turbine every 20 years. All mined, refined, and installed with liquid fueled machines. And this would still leave many days of widespread black out per year due to the equally incomprehensible quantity of storage it would take. And try to shift heavy machines to corded electric? and heavy transport to electrolytic Hydrogen with it's terrible round trip efficiency.
.
And many times more raw materials for the rest of the world to do the same. It just does not add up. By a factor of 10. This wishful thinking without ever running the numbers is impeding logical discussion of what really can be done to come down for a softer landing after liquid fuel leaves us.
Yes,the numbers are mind-numbing!
My dark side goes to many non-politically-correct places when considering our options.I'll keep all that to myself for now.
We'll just have to watch what the market does, since there isn't any grand vision or policy except what we've already seen,and what some are taking back away from us.
We're not the same USA as on December 6th,1941.We may have bred out any true patriotism we had in the intervening years since then.
Madison Avenue won!
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:12 PM   #1835 (permalink)
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how big

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Originally Posted by sendler View Post
How big? How much was the Tesla BigF'nBattery in South Australia? that is called 100MW/ 125 MWh but is never seen to output more than 40MW and only for a few minutes at a time. And how long will it last?
I can't tell you the specifics,as I'm not sure that they even shared that data in the program.
If it was a coal-fired power plant equivalent-sized PV facility,then,according to Lester Brown circa 2008,this would constitute a 500-MW facility,with 72% operational capacity(operating 6,300 hours/year),producing 3.15-billion kWh/year.
Algeria had plans for a 6,000-MW solar-thermal electric power plant as of June,2007.(they have the potential for 4X total global electricity demand)
The Chinese are experimenting with all known battery technologies,hoping to single out the ideal setup,even if its frog legs and zinc plates.
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Old 05-23-2018, 03:38 PM   #1836 (permalink)
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two weeks/night

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Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Doesn't impress me much. Dealing with a cloud transit is child's play compared to weeks of overcast, not to mention just dealing with night. No mention of cost, either. I can accomplish anything if you give me enough money.

Battery systems are probably necessary to buffer up to a couple minutes of erratic power supply / demand, but it's no good for providing hours of power.
Yeah,that'd be the test alright!
I suppose that the premise of the program was just a technology demonstration ,that the technology existed,in which a solar PV sun-related power interruption didn't necessarily mean a grid interruption.
Once they single out the best-fit storage technology,then it's a matter of 'scale.'
Since the 1970s, in Israel,they've used solar ponds for thermal storage.Heat- exchangers submerged within the ponds flash off super-heated working fluid which powers nearby turbo-generators day and night,for 24-hour electrical production.
A college chum worked for Texas Utilities (now TXU).Even the conventional,fossil-fuel-fired power plants had to undergo annual shutdowns for maintenance.
Perhaps Australia ought not put all its eggs in one basket,but disperse it generating capacity geographically,so as not to be completely in 'shade' at least during the day.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:28 PM   #1837 (permalink)
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Quote:
My dark side goes to many non-politically-correct places when considering our options.I'll keep all that to myself for now....
Madison Avenue won!
I see it another way. Political parties, the media and conspiracy theories are all being dismantled by Internet doing what it does best — a parallel construction from open sources of information that traditionally was consider beyond top secret. Weaponized autism.

Consequences will never be the same.
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Old 05-23-2018, 10:07 PM   #1838 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Consequences will never be the same.
I've backtraced your reference.

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Old 05-23-2018, 10:46 PM   #1839 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
I see it another way. Political parties, the media and conspiracy theories are all being dismantled by Internet doing what it does best ó a parallel construction from open sources of information that traditionally was consider beyond top secret. Weaponized autism.

Consequences will never be the same.
I don't always agree with you.

But I agree with you.

Weaponized autism is a perfect description of social media!
 
Old 05-23-2018, 11:21 PM   #1840 (permalink)
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I always appreciate what you have to say, but my intended meaning was opposite.

The parallel construction I mentioned is specific to one board and the followers on Reddit and Youtube. Remember the green frog back during the election cycle? Those guys.

The social media in general is dopamine on steroids.

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