Craig Vetter Quote...

[Grant-53]

Here's the question. What is the suggested minimum and maximum speed for pulse and glide on a level two lane highway where the posted speed limit is 55 mph? In my daily 30 mile commute I encounter two 30 pmh zones, a 45 mph zone, two 55 mph zones, and 10 miles of 65 mph interstate. If I want to go to the nearest grocery store, it is 2 miles at 30 mph with 3 traffic lights and one stop sign. Our family requires 6 gal. of milk and a lot more than 4 small bags of groceries per week but I believe that a bicycle and trailer could handle it. That's my real world. Oh yes, Walmart is 10 miles away.

[cvetter]

Morning Grant: I have no opinion about this. My job is to help to develop the equipment.

Craig

[Frank Lee]

Grant: 55mph roads often (always?) have 45mph minimum. So there's your legal P&G range. You should be able to legally glide down to 45 on the interstate too, but you may opt not to depending on conditions and the civility of the rest of the pack.

Re: groceries: is there any chance someone in the family was heading near the grocery store more than 1x/week anyway, like if they work in that town? Then the grocery needs can still be fulfilled with a 4 bag capacity. Or, as you noted, perhaps like for every other land-based vehicle a trailer or some sort of extra-capacity device can be employed when needed.

P.S. SIX gallons of milk/week- sounds like you need a goat or a cow.

[visionary]

I have an observation for Craig (if he cares to hear it)
I'm a big fan of everything he has done, and is trying to do. In fact my project was inspired from a point he made on his website about "maybe the best thing to do is start with a bike that already gets good gas mileage" (paraphrased)
I would love to take part in the "Vetter Challenge" but there are two obstacles!
The first is - it's my perception that the rules are "arbitary", which is unbecoming of a serious competition. People's habits vary across the world, as do the size and shape of grocery bags (not to mention the packing and storage method). The rules (as clarified) are built around "Craig's world" which I fear is very different from most of us.
F1 rules have stability and clear concise definitions, yet they still spark controversy - because people need to know where the goalposts are, and that Craig won't move them.
The second obstacle is called the Atlantic, but I suspect it is a simpler impediment than the politics of the competition.

[cvetter]

I understand your concerns. Most of what I want to do is subjective and cannot be measured. How do I measure "sitting up and comfortable?" There are so many riding positions that it would be impossible to quantify. How do I measure being the "first choice" in a garage? Most of us have 2 or 3 vehicles and they are for different purposes.
Going 70 mph, into a 30 mph headwind is measurable. Fuel cost in dollars and cents is measurable. Four bags of groceries is measurable and the sizes are measurable. US sizes are posted, by the way.

Because I missed the "subjective goals" back in my 1980s contests, people only drove their contest bikes at the contest. It is my hope that we are developing the bike we really want to drive. I am doing just that. When my Helix is in the studio, being upgraded, I really miss it.

By the way, do you sense any interest in the UK - home of FF- for a fuel economy contest? And if so, what qualities would be important to you and your peers?

[visionary]

I can't speak for much of the UK population but I believe FE is a higher priority now than at any other time. There is general resentment of the high fuel prices, not just the "raw" dollar-per-barrel price but the punitive taxation rates that apply to most transport fuels across europe. Even though most of us recognise that this has driven FE, which it hasn't done in the states, we all want cheaper fuel.
There are some "promotional events" such as the eco-rally but these are more for "new technology" demonstration. A true contest (such as your own) would be well recieved, as we are not short of mad inventors in Britian.

I understand your point about making things relevant. Some years ago I was fortunate enough to try a vehicle in the Shell Eco Marathon held at Rockingham Motor Speedway, the same one also tried by Michael Schumacher. The contest was superbly organised with precise regulation, but it lacked "soul" and relevance to our daily lives.

Keep up the effort, I'm sure you know that criticism comes with the territory!

[cvetter]

Over the past few years I have been fortunate to have been invited to motorcycle events in your country. I made it a point to meet Cedric Lynch, Paul Compton, Paul Blez and others. While my passion has been streamlining and fuel economy it seemed that cabin and feet forward machines reigned in the UK. Fuel economy never seemed important. It always seemed odd considering the fact that your taxes make your fuel so much more expensive.

We have had Harleys feet-forward forever, it seems. Well, at least since the 1969 Easy Rider movie. I don't see any trend towards cabin machines in the US. Is there anything I could do to encourage interest in fuel economy in the UK? You're cabin machines are a good start.

[visionary]

Actually Craig, after giving it a lot of thought, I do have a suggestion!

Do you remember, back in the late 70’s/early 80’s there was a “Transatlantic Trophy”. A series of motorcycle races between the best American bike racers, and the European stars. This “friendly rivalry” was a big draw to UK racing circuits, and I feel that the spirit of that racing series could be brought up to date with a FE challenge.

Imagine a small “team” of the best performers from your own US competition, up against an equivalent number of European experts like Allert.
Of course, the whole thing would need some good promotion and some sponsor input, but I’m convinced it would draw a crowd!

[cvetter]

I do remember the 1971 Trans Atlantic Match Series races. Altho I was not there in 1971, I was in England for the Trans-Atlantic Match Series Reunion in 2008.

This is a great idea except I would not know where to begin to look for money to ship the bikes back and forth. In 1971, the British government gave BSA a bunch of money. That is how the they funded the Match Series. I do not want government handouts.

"Living better on less energy" means pretty much everybody sells less which does not sound good for business, does it?

Who do you think will look forward to earning less because we are spending less?

That would be our sponsor.

[Quasimoto]

As I've read through this thread; I couldn't believe the number of members, who obviously had not even visited Craigs' website. Ignorance is bliss! What Craig is trying to do is to create another Volkswagen; or peoples vehicle. One that doesn't require a lot of skilled driving techniques to get superior mileage. One that anyone could just jump on and drive on a 400 mile trip and use 3 gallons of gas. Or the wife could use to get groceries. Something that's versatile and fun to drive; that can keep up with highway traffic, without worrying about being run over by irate drivers. Pulse and glide in traffic on a bike; you must have a death wish. With Craigs bike and your skill, what kind of mileage would be possible? If you don't like his design, than design your own and beat him at the next Vetter challenge. But you'll have to play by his rules. His game, his rules. Like it or not. And don't feel bad if you feel insulted by anything Craig may have said or done; the whole world thinks were a bunch of loonies anyway.