Craig Vetter Quote...

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by Quasimoto

As I've read through this thread; I couldn't believe the number of members, who obviously had not even visited Craigs' website. Ignorance is bliss! What Craig is trying to do is to create another Volkswagen; or peoples vehicle. One that doesn't require a lot of skilled driving techniques to get superior mileage. One that anyone could just jump on and drive on a 400 mile trip and use 3 gallons of gas. Or the wife could use to get groceries. Something that's versatile and fun to drive; that can keep up with highway traffic, without worrying about being run over by irate drivers. Pulse and glide in traffic on a bike; you must have a death wish. With Craigs bike and your skill, what kind of mileage would be possible? If you don't like his design, than design your own and beat him at the next Vetter challenge. But you'll have to play by his rules. His game, his rules. Like it or not. And don't feel bad if you feel insulted by anything Craig may have said or done; the whole world thinks were a bunch of loonies anyway.

Hey neighbor! I'm about 5 mi from you.

I have studied Craig's site extensively, and now better understand his views, but some of the rules sound like they are designed to produce "the best 2-wheeled vehicle for Craig Vetter's needs". 70 MPH into a 30 MPH headwind isn't a typical requirement for most. How about the small tires of a scooter for extended highway riding? Isn't that a problem? Most current cycle riders will most likely prefer a "conventional" riding position over a reclined "scooter" position. There are so many different styles of cycles out there because people have different wants/needs. I don't think there is any one type of cycle that will fit for everyone, that's why I like to see some of the unusual designs that people come up to satisfy their needs. Making too many specific rules, so they require a certain type of vehicle, defeats creativity IMO.

I think the Challenge is neat, but I wouldn't want to see it become a quest to find the best modified scooter.

If developing a 2-wheeled Volkswagen Beetle is the objective, why not just start producing one? If it's really what people want/need they will buy it - right?


Jay

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by jkv357

Hey neighbor! I'm about 5 mi from you.

I have studied Craig's site extensively, and now better understand his views, but some of the rules sound like they are designed to produce "the best 2-wheeled vehicle for Craig Vetter's needs". 70 MPH into a 30 MPH headwind isn't a typical requirement for most. How about the small tires of a scooter for extended highway riding? Isn't that a problem? Most current cycle riders will most likely prefer a "conventional" riding position over a reclined "scooter" position. There are so many different styles of cycles out there because people have different wants/needs. I don't think there is any one type of cycle that will fit for everyone, that's why I like to see some of the unusual designs that people come up to satisfy their needs. Making too many specific rules, so they require a certain type of vehicle, defeats creativity IMO.

I think the Challenge is neat, but I wouldn't want to see it become a quest to find the best modified scooter.

If developing a 2-wheeled Volkswagen Beetle is the objective, why not just start producing one? If it's really what people want/need they will buy it - right?


Jay

Hi neighbor,
Is it harder to go 70 mph (only 65 in Wisconsin) into a 30 mph wind or climb a steep hill while maintaining the same speed. Different areas of the country have different road conditions. The 30 mph headwind requirement is an extreme that you cannot expect to run into continuously for the whole 100 mile course. The speed however must be maintained no matter the conditions; in order to be fair to all contestants. You can't have some going 40 and others going 70. unless you have a time limit for completing the course. With todays tires that should not be an issue. I've been riding bikes since I was 16, I won't say what year that was; and given a choice I would take the nice cushy seat and backrest for a long trip any day. Those people who want to save gas and money are the only ones likely to be interested in anything any of us has to say. The rest will still be riding on their back wheel trying to be the next road kill. Like I said before; his game, his rules. You don't have to like them, you don't have to agree with them, but if you want in the game, you have to abide by them. Dave

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by jkv357

Hey neighbor! I'm about 5 mi from you.



I think the Challenge is neat, but I wouldn't want to see it become a quest to find the best modified scooter.




Jay

If you checked out the Ohio challenge, most all the bikes entered; including the winner; weren't scooters at all. They were modified bikes with all different sitting positions.

[cvetter]

Well, that puts it bluntly. Thank you. I have been doing this a long time. A great idea that is not available and not being used - is not solving our problem. One of my jobs as an inventor/designer is to set the goals that will result in a problem being solved.

I don't work for somebody else who sets the goals for me. I set the goals for me.

The goal I have set is to help to reduce our country's thirst for imported fuel and live better in the process. In order for a 40 mpg cycle to consume fuel within our ability to produce it, we need to get 120 mpg. In order to live better, we must end up with a vehicle we really want to drive.

You already have read that my goal is to drive the way I already drive (brisk acceleration... at the speed limit... into fierce winds... up and down hills... sitting up and comfortable) with a useful load. You already know that I want to do this on a machine that is my first choice of vehicles in my garage.

There are previously un-published goals I will mention now. My experience in manufacturing also has taught me that whatever I design must be able to be economically made and shipped to you - around the world - if need be. Streamlined bodies are big! This is why my Streamliner Kit are also designed to be shipped by UPS... or the mail (if you simply order the plans on paper.)

Major manufacturers are not likely to be interested in these goals. They look for where the most money might be. As the previous writes said "The world thinks we are a bunch of loonies anyway"

I have been thru this before. In 1969, I designed the Hurricane for Triumph.[/URL] People had never seen anything like my design and it was not popular when it was introduced. But by the late 90s, my Triumph Hurricane design was a key selection for the Guggenheim "Art of the Motorcycle" My Windjammer design of 1971 had the same reception. Today, every manufacturer makes a Windjammer-like fairing.

Fuel economy is the future. Streamlining is the future. Combining these qualities into a vehicle that is our first choice among vehicles is essential.

This is what I am trying to do. This is what I am encouraging you to do. Vetter Fuel Challenges give us a place to meet, exchange ideas and compete.

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by Quasimoto

If you checked out the Ohio challenge, most all the bikes entered; including the winner; weren't scooters at all. They were modified bikes with all different sitting positions.

True, but a lot of those cycle will no longer qualify to compete because of clarification of the rules, including the requirement for carrying the 4 bags of groceries in an upright and accessible position.


Jay

[Quasimoto]

Originally Posted by jkv357

True, but a lot of those cycle will no longer qualify to compete because of clarification of the rules, including the requirement for carrying the 4 bags of groceries in an upright and accessible position.


Jay

Then they won't be able to win the competition, because it won't be fair to the ones who are carrying the groceries. The 4 bags rule was there from the beginning, no clarification necessary. You don't have a little pit bull in you; do you?

[cvetter]

Imagine this: Fuel has become extremely expensive and/or difficult to get.

(I have experienced fuel being expensive and or difficult to get.)

You have a choice of two vehicles. All qualities are the same except for carrying capacity.

One carries the amount a standard Helix carries

The other carries 5 bags of groceries, enclosed and upright.

Which vehicle would you be most likely to want and use?

[Clev]

Just joining this thread, and didn't realize that Craig was on it. Hi! I won't have to bother you by email anymore. :-)

The "70 mph into a 30 mph headwind" requirement is a good one. I had a Helix that could barely do 55 into a 30 mph headwind (which we do actually experience here in Southern California,) and it would take a minute of full-throttle thrashing to get to that speed. That made it a white-knuckled ride on the freeway, and left no headroom for passing, maneuvering or even getting out of the right lane. On those days, I would have to drop to side streets or fear for my life.

While I won't always WANT to do 70 mph into a 30 mph headwind, it is a heck of a lot safer having that ability.

[cvetter]

Yeah... California winds make a good testing grounds.

[Frank Lee]

It is TOTALLY reasonable for Craig to require the vehicle to conform to the conditions HE SEES DAILY. And that's the last time I'm gonna say it.