Craziest thing you have heard?

[bwilson4web]

"General Efficiency" forum, thread "Craziest thing you have heard" is the place to characterize Prius driving as ". . . passing me in my turbo like I'm standing still!" and "Vindicated ... driven like they're stolen."

Have we decided to substitute opinions about Prius drivers for empirical data and analysis?

This isn't crazy but something else . . . what could it be?

Bob Wilson

[Frank Lee]

Commonly held impressions and observations?

[nemo]

Does anyone expect driving habits to change because someone purchases a more fuel efficient car. No new car training was required No test given. Just plunk down the money and your are off.

[Kodak]

Originally Posted by nemo

Does anyone expect driving habits to change because someone purchases a more fuel efficient car. No new car training was required No test given. Just plunk down the money and your are off.

Makes perfect sense nemo.

But my line of thinking is that if somebody is buying a hybrid, they are doing it with frugality or eco (ecology or economy) in mind. Their motive must be to save fuel/money...right? So considering the fact that learning the basics of hypermiling is as simple as a quick web search, why is that not accomplished? It seems contradictory...

But should I check my premises? Maybe said driver really is aware of some of the techniques, and refuses to use them (it is their right). In this case, they're still saving money with the hybrid but not as much as possible.


In fact, I guess pickup and SUV Ecomodders would be viewed similarly be some. "You want mpg, but you're in a ___?" Of course, efficient driving can apply to any vehicle, but from the outside it might not make sense. Just a matter of perspective, I guess.

Personally, I've seen both. A few [rare] hypermilers in hybrids, mostly average type drivers, and maybe a few speeders. It's a mixed bag.

[bwilson4web]

In the spirit of the lounge, you' all have missed the metric that explains why the Prius are so much faster than ordinary traffic.

The price of fuel has made it too expensive to choke up the roads with inefficient Subaru GTs, Tempos, F-150s, Sables, GoldWings, Grand Prix, and Canyons. So in desperation, their drivers are forced to use hypermiling driving speeds, driving as slow as possible, and becoming easily passed road hazards.

Thanks to high gas prices, the traffic has thinned out and/or slow enough that Prius drivers can finally cruise at our optimum MPG speeds. After all, gas for us costs half as much as it does for slow-poke hypermiling, fuelish vehicles.

In short, fuelish vehicles can achieve Prius MPG by driving at slow-poke, hypermiling speeds to be passed by Prius. Alternatively, other drivers can match Prius speeds by burning twice or more fuel and drain their wallets, so they stay parked. Regardless, both effects combined to let the Prius drivers apparently travel faster than the fuelish.

Bob Wilson

[Frank Lee]

Vindicated again!

[bwilson4web]

At the risk of bringing in some facts and data to this opinion thread:

The NHW11 Prius, 2001-03, has a knee in the mileage curve that makes 65 mph the optimum cruising speed. At 70 mph, it is on the cusp of a precipitous MPG drop. In contrast, the 1.5L, NHW20 Prius goes out to 85 mph before the knee in the curve shows up.

At 100 mph, the NHW20 is still getting 25 MPG and the NHW11, just 22 MPG:

There are times when one may need to cruise at 100 mph or better . . . medical emergency comes to mind or if you need to find a cop.

So Prius drivers have the option of choosing their speed for the desired MPG:

No stinkin' hypermiler pedal dancing and the stupid, lame, 'guilt trip' of their masochistic recriminations. Nothin' but free men and women using this marvelous tool, this Prius, to improve the quality of our lives (and pocket books.)

Are we driving like we're stealing? H*LL YES, and proud of it! Did you think Al Gore's son was just a one-time thing? Or perhaps Woz just had a pedal entrapment? Love those 'runaway Prius' stories . . . "Sorry officer I couldn't get it to stop! You know how these Toyota's are about run-away."

Prius drivers are getting over every fuelish car on the road today and the worry-wart, pedal dancing, hypermilers. We really don't care what others are doing . . . they've made their bed and can live in it . . . money-sucking, gas-bugs et. al.

Bob Wilson

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

At the risk of bringing in some facts and data to this opinion thread:

That's not crazy, but your fiendish glee about it is. My miles are almost all in either 60-70 mph or 70-80 mph traffic, depending on what part of my commute I'm in. My stinkin' hypermiler pedal dancing isn't too far behind your marvelous tool in those conditions, and I'm still just learning how to do it.

I've got a lot of respect for the Prius, it's a great platform for not burning mych gas. It isn't magical, though- it just uses a computer to automatically switch between different power sources. It also isn't all that good at other things than simply not burning gas: It can't tow. It isn't a snowmobile. It can't even fly (does it top out at 100 or does the chart just stop there?). It's not even the be-all end-all of not burning gas- at the same highway speeds speeds my old 96 Esteem got better mileage. For my needs, the Prius would be a horrible choice of car.

So yes, I giggle when I get passed by a Prius. They think they bought a magical tool to save gas and they're operating it in a way that minimizes its fuel efficiency. For a lot of theose people, the Prius just isn't the right choice of car.

[bwilson4web]

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

- it just uses a computer to automatically switch between different power sources.

To be precise, the Prius has a network of computers, not just one.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

-It can't tow.

Does that mean I have to take off my 2" reciever? Does this mean I can't buy one for my wife's car? I don't think so. Whether or not Toyota lists a towing capability, more than a few of us do it already.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

-does it top out at 100 or does the chart just stop there?

I can only plot data provided. In the case of my NHW11, there was this curve rapidly approaching. As for the NHW20, it was volunteered many years ago. Many sources claim higher mph and some of us know how to tweak that up with larger diameter tires.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

- at the same highway speeds . . .

Ok, this is crazy as it implies the car never stops and the driver and passengers get in and out of the car like in the movie "Speed." Or does the driveway only exit onto a highway and all destinations have their parking lot on the highway.

Cherry picking' "just highway" is the latest fraud in GM/Chevy ads (and a few other vendors like VW.) Yet the vast majority of our population lives in urban and suburban environments. It is and remains a crazy claim as examination of user reported mileage at www.fueleconomy.gov shows.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

-For a lot of those people, the Prius just isn't the right choice of car.

Absent names of Prius owners who concur and some engineering data, this is either crazy or hubris. Pick your poison.

Bob Wilson

[Arragonis]

Technique counts for a lot.

I got into the Boss's Auris Hybrid (Prius drivetrain in a lighter conventional hatchback) and immediately got 79 MPG on a 5 mile urban circuit - I was impressed, I think I tapped I was here as well. So was he, he has never matched that yet.

I was tempted to think about a Mk2 Prius (used) as an option to change but decided against it. Why ? I could probably get it to do some ridiculous MPG with techniques from EM but I would have to invest a lot (~£5-8K extra) beforehand to get behind the wheel of said Prius compared to something cheaper with simpler technology such as stop-start. And I have stop-start now, it is key operated.

Plus I can't help thinking that achieving something like this without the technology means I can trouser the £s saved immediately, and ultimately it is just more fun for me

I know this is like those people who like to fiddle with hacking Linux to have a working PC vs buying a brand new Apple or Windows 7 PC but they are enjoying it.

Originally Posted by bwilson4web

There are times when one may need to cruise at 100 mph or better . . . medical emergency comes to mind or if you need to find a cop.

If either of these were an issue for me then

a) maximising my MPG would not be a priority - speed would

b) I can currently cruise a good 15-20 mph faster than a Prius can go flat out, and can corner and stop better.

c) the only place where a conventionally driven Prius betters my car for MPG the way I drive now is in stop-go traffic. Technique rules again.

Anyway I'm going to find out in 2-3 weeks time when Mrs A's 2011/12 Prius arrives having been delayed in Japan, and maybe glowing. It will be interesting to be sitting on the fence avoiding the splinters on both sides.