CRXFi Build Thread (Geo Metro XFi drivetrain in Honda CRX)

[Gasoline Fumes]

The XFi has the O2 sensor right in the manifold, which is where I'd leave it. There's no AIR injection on Metros. And probably not on the CRX either, I know a 1991 Civic Wagon doesn't have it.

I hope to see this thing at the GGP.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes

The XFi has the O2 sensor right in the manifold, which is where I'd leave it. There's no AIR injection on Metros. And probably not on the CRX either, I know a 1991 Civic Wagon doesn't have it.

I hope to see this thing at the GGP.

Nope, no Civic (ever, that I know of, but I'm sure someone can chime in differently) has AIR on it.

If the Metro's O2 sensor is in the manifold, that's probably the best place to put it for the ECM's programming, so best left where it goes. It's funny, the number of non-complications that this swap has already seen...

The O2 sensors are in nearly the same place.
The cats are in nearly the same place.
The (Metro) axles fit the (smaller) Honda hubs.
The track widths of both vehicles are similar enough to not need custom axles made.
What else will go right?

[Gasoline Fumes]

Originally Posted by Christ

Nope, no Civic (ever, that I know of, but I'm sure someone can chime in differently) has AIR on it.

My carbureted 1984 Civic Wagon had it, but no pump. It just used exhaust vacuum and a reed valve.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Gasoline Fumes

My carbureted 1984 Civic Wagon had it, but no pump. It just used exhaust vacuum and a reed valve.

Could that really be considered AIR, then?

AIR -

Air Injection Reaction...

Specifically thinking about the "injection" part, here... I'm guessing it couldn't really be called injection if it's being fed through vacuum induction?

That'd be ACR - Air Carburetor Injection... The less efficient, but easier to tune cousin to AIR... :P

(Sorry, I had to. I keed.)

[Wonderboy]

Starting to get a bit more serious now. Sorry I don't have any pics this time. I got the metro harness completely out and ready to hack into/put into the CRX. The CRX's harness(es) are completely intact, so any advice on how to approach (besides carefully)? A quick and dirty way would be to put the XFi harness completely alongside of the CRX harness, and hack it up at the base near the plugs...or I could take the time to strip all non-engine wires from the CRX harness and leave the accessory wires (lights, wipers) intact. Any suggestions about how to most efficiently add the engine bits to the CRX while still allowing the accessories to work? I don't really know what to expect from the fuel pump/gauge either. I'm not even thinking about climate control yet.

Here are some things I found out:

-The Metro radiator is taller than the CRX bracket, but can't be forced in because the front crossmember is in the way - The CRX's radiator will be needed, but its hose hookups are inconveniently placed on the wrong side of the engine bay...perhaps some additional hose and some elbows?

-The CRX's shifter is a few inches father away from the engine bay than it is in the metro. I may have to do something a little crazy to get the shifter to work.

-Exhaust looks like it's going to be just fine. It does indeed have an o2 sensor on the manifold.

-The Metro's gauge cluster is a 3 gauge - no tachometer.

-The CRX's subframe in the engine bay is pretty well 3' on the dot apart, the metro 2'10.5" - luckily not the other way around.

-NYS still isn't done mystically changing the title from PA to NY yet <bites fingernails>. Guess we'll see what happens next week!

[Christ]

In steps:

Wiring -
Yeah, you kinda knew this would take time, patience, and a little majick. The XFi is carb'd, right? So just use the parts of the CRX harness that you need for each part of the XFi engine.

Realistically, the wiring should technically be one of the easiest jobs, after the motor is installed. In any engine swap, it's almost universally the best idea to use the harness from the car that you're installing the engine into, adding/subtracting wires where necessary.

Going to a carb'd engine, the only things you'll really need to wire in are the starter, sending units, and ignition distributor, none of which should be too difficult. In all honesty, you could run that engine without even touching the CRX's wiring, and using only a battery cable, a switch, a push button, and a couple lengths of speaker wire. (This is how the woods truck runs now, actually.)

Short form - Unless you plan on using the connectors, ditch the XFi's harness altogether, and just use the CRX's wiring harness to match up wires you need.

(PS - If the XFi was injected, that whole dealy goes out the window... it's still easiest to use the CRX's harness and install the wires you need, though.)

Radiator -
You can either use the CRX's radiator, and add hard line/elbows as necessary, or you can hack the center hood latch support on the CRX to make it so you can install the Metro's radiator at an angle. To hack the center support, you drill about 1/3 of the way down it, a hole about 3/8", then install a strap from left to right that intersects that hole. Bolt the strap to the support, then bolt the ends of the strap to your core support edges, below the headlights. This should give you enough room to install the radiator at a slight angle, enough to clear the core support and hood.

You may also be able to remove the core support stops (that the radiator sits on) from the core support, and let the radiator sit on the front lower cross member (where the radius rods bolt up).

Using the CRX radiator might also require adapting the hoses for diameter, as well.

Shifter -
This isn't a big deal, although I'm not sure how the linkage works on the XFi. ON the CRX, it's a single pin that hooks the shift linkage rod into the transmission shift rod "nub"... it's commonly called a b!tch pin (sorry, but that's what it's called) because it's a PITA to get in/out. It's just a steel roll pin. In any event, you won't want to attempt to move the shifter inside the car, it's easier to just cut the tube and extend/shorten it as necessary.

If you can get a shifter actuator rod from a Metro 3 cylinder, cut the transmission end off it, and weld it to the CRX's shift lever after the engine is installed, to ensure the proper length.



NYS can take up to 3 months to change a title... their licensing/title laws are VERY different from PA's.

[Gasoline Fumes]

Originally Posted by Wonderboy

Starting to get a bit more serious now. Sorry I don't have any pics this time. I got the metro harness completely out and ready to hack into/put into the CRX. The CRX's harness(es) are completely intact, so any advice on how to approach (besides carefully)? A quick and dirty way would be to put the XFi harness completely alongside of the CRX harness, and hack it up at the base near the plugs...or I could take the time to strip all non-engine wires from the CRX harness and leave the accessory wires (lights, wipers) intact. Any suggestions about how to most efficiently add the engine bits to the CRX while still allowing the accessories to work? I don't really know what to expect from the fuel pump/gauge either. I'm not even thinking about climate control yet.

Here are some things I found out:

-The Metro radiator is taller than the CRX bracket, but can't be forced in because the front crossmember is in the way - The CRX's radiator will be needed, but its hose hookups are inconveniently placed on the wrong side of the engine bay...perhaps some additional hose and some elbows?

-The CRX's shifter is a few inches father away from the engine bay than it is in the metro. I may have to do something a little crazy to get the shifter to work.

-Exhaust looks like it's going to be just fine. It does indeed have an o2 sensor on the manifold.

-The Metro's gauge cluster is a 3 gauge - no tachometer.

-The CRX's subframe in the engine bay is pretty well 3' on the dot apart, the metro 2'10.5" - luckily not the other way around.

-NYS still isn't done mystically changing the title from PA to NY yet <bites fingernails>. Guess we'll see what happens next week!

Use the Metro engine harness and the rest of the wiring from the CRX. It's up to you if you want to remove the CRX engine wiring. I would, just because I don't like "extra" parts. I installed the Suzuki Swift TBI in a carbureted Tercel. It's almost like Suzuki made the system universal. Not too many connections outside of the engine harness required to make the engine run.

If you're using the CRX gauge cluster, the fuel gauge will work like Honda intended. And the sending units have almost exactly the same resistance, so you could use the Metro gauges if you wanted to. And the CRX fuel pump should work fine with the Suzuki TBI. The pressure regulator is in the throttle body, so the pressure should still be correct. But I'd check it with a gauge anyway.

Climate control should be easy unless you want A/C. Use all the CRX stuff and just connect the CRX heater core to the engine's heater hose connections.

I'd be tempted to find a radiator that fits better.

The shifter shouldn't be too hard, they both have basically the same setup. Nothing a little welding won't fix.

[Wonderboy]

Just picked up a bunch of stuff from the junkyard:

-Radiator. I believe the Honda hoses are 7/8" and Geo 1"....we'll see how that goes

-Heater/fan control. I took a gamble and got one from a hatchback. I know these aren't the same as CRX, but it seems like it should work since the main operation is a bunch of pull-cables. If the plug for the fan speed doesn't fit, I can always go back and grab the plug from the junkyard.

-Shift linkage. Honda's shift linkage leans toward the opposite side of the engine bay that the geo does. Luckily the shop I'll be working in tomorrow to do the mounts has a pipe bender! Bend, chop, and weld the geo motor-side ends on.

The b!tch pin actually wasn't hard at all for me to get out. I ended up taking one of the core support bolts out (10mm) and using that as a punch. It hammered right outta there.

I may end up trying the tilted radiator thing, but I really doubt it's going to fit. Not a lot of real estate in that area.

Still haven't decided on how to do the wiring yet... I'm thinking it may be easier for me to use the XFi harness so I can have a reference for where all those plugs went, then hack it up in one central location as opposed to cutting twice with the crx harness (unless of course the ECU pins from the honda pop right out and fit perfectly into the geo plugs).

I'll probably have some pictures tonight. Stay tuned!

[Wonderboy]

Got quite a bit done. I now have climate control (except for the ability to choose what vent the air comes from - Even the HF came stock with buttons to choose vent combos.
instead of a cable. I got the tach cable (the big one that clips onto the back of the cluster, right?) installed. Like Gasoline fumes said, it's all denso, and the same thing, so it fits right together. The throttle cable also fit well - I had to make a nice ghetto-fabulus piece of sheet metal to keep the throttle cable in place since it isn't supposed to belong there. See photo:

The clutch cable was the only cable that gave me a problem. The geo one is just too short. A honda cable is going to be super long, but it should work.

I took a long look at the geo harness and the crx harness. It looks like one part of the geo harness (see photo) seems to contain most of the connectors used on the actual engine.

The only connectors I saw that may be necessary to be connected to the ECU are the distributor coil and the resistor box. A similar harness "dichotomy" seems to exist with the crx harness, and maybe the little connector on the driver side strut tower contains (8 wires) all that is necessary to "return" to the ECU (shown here).

A similar connector with 7 wires exists right next to the geo relay box, followed by the rest of the accessories on the geo harness:

Time to start looking at some pinouts. I've decided to leave the crx wiring intact and put the engine essentials from the XFi harness "on top" of it. Think I can get away with keeping only the CRX relay box?

Tomorrow is welding day, hopefully the motor will be nestled in by this time tomorrow! Could someone change this thread title to CRXFi Build Thread or something like that please?

[Christ]

Once you get that harness hacked together, take some really good notes... Someday, if you keep the car for any length of time, and I get some time away from all the drama in my life, I'll see about building you a single harness for the whole she-bang.

Of course, I'll need a core harness (has to be from an HF) and one from an XFi or equivalent (the HF's harness is specific to that car).

This isn't a guarantee, though... just a suggestion that someday, I might be able to work on it.

If you want to choose your vents, you swap in the heater core boxes/vent boxes from a hatchback. They should be a direct bolt-in, IIRC. Something will probably not quite line up, though. That will give you cable-based access to the air-deflector flap (valve thingy). You might even be able to just get away with removing the electric motor that's on the box now (pull the dash, it's easier. You can leave the center console mostly installed, so you won't have to pull the climate control again), and replace it and it's lever with the cable and lever from a "normal" model.

ALL CRX's have push-button location adjustment, even the 1st gen ones. (Everyone I've seen that I can recall, anyway. Of course, there could be some that didn't, that I've just never seen.)

Later, if you want to tidy up the project more, companies like Lokar make custom cables that can work for swaps and such. No idea what it would cost to make a cable, but then again, I'm sure we could grab another CRX cable and another TBI Metro cable, and splice them reliably... I did used to make cables in one of the factories I worked for... These are all things that I can work on here at my house, and pick up/deliver them as we meet up in places, such as one of the local parts yards, so they don't require me to spend a day hours away from my family, or take time off from making money to support us, etc.

Anyway, those are some ideas for you to consider.

The climate control swap I can guarantee will work in some form, because my Civic Sedan had CRX climate control installed (by me) in it. I also had a CRX complete dash, and CRX Si seats. (Almost had the back seat, too... never could find it for less than $300, though. Instead, I installed all the cargo areas in the rear seat area. I even started on the interior plastics, modifying them to fit cleanly in the sedan's chassis.)