Diesel + lpg = big mpg

[UFO]

Originally Posted by sheepdog 44

So if piping LPG into your engine helps (whether for power or FE) what about piping pure oxygen? An ember in pure oxygen will burst into a fire, and gas would presumable burn cleaner. Say just double the atmospheric percentage of o2.

I've always wondered what would happen if you drove a car in the prehistoric dinosaur era when they say we had a much richer oxygen atmosphere.

I think you just answered your own question, think about it.

[ecomodded]

The propane injection sounds like a fun project really,if it delivers more miles a gallon and more hp it is on the verge of unbelievable,yet much like the x-files i want to believe.. I can see the reasoning behind the reported benefit of the enhanced burn it may/would cause.

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by sheepdog 44

So if piping LPG into your engine helps (whether for power or FE) what about piping pure oxygen? An ember in pure oxygen will burst into a fire, and gas would presumable burn cleaner. Say just double the atmospheric percentage of o2.

I've always wondered what would happen if you drove a car in the prehistoric dinosaur era when they say we had a much richer oxygen atmosphere.

Oxygen "enrichment" has been done by some folks at Argonne National Labs:Clean Diesel Technology.

[sheepdog 44]

Thanks for the info. I suppose with all things if you just happen to have a spare or free o2 tank and you can get really cheap refills thats great. 2-10% efficiency across the whole range, more HP, and better emmisions. As long as you invest little, what more or less you gain gives a faster return on that investment.

I guess why this isn't standard stuff is it adds consumer involvement in the refueling process. And leaking LPG or o2 in a crash isn't so good. Not that the tank will rupture, but what safety disconnects will you have that stops leaking the gas on impact?

[Diesel_Dave]

Originally Posted by sheepdog 44

Thanks for the info. I suppose with all things if you just happen to have a spare or free o2 tank and you can get really cheap refills thats great. 2-10% efficiency across the whole range, more HP, and better emmisions. As long as you invest little, what more or less you gain gives a faster return on that investment.

I guess why this isn't standard stuff is it adds consumer involvement in the refueling process. And leaking LPG or o2 in a crash isn't so good. Not that the tank will rupture, but what safety disconnects will you have that stops leaking the gas on impact?

I don't remember the exact details, but I believe the Argonne system had the technology to chemically change the incoming air onboard (no high pressure O2 tanks). The details are in that link.

[oil pan 4]

MPGs with propane?
Yeah it works, propane just replaces diesel fuel.
After testing on and off for about a year I figured propane on a suburban was too much of a hassle.
The plan was to experement with propane then test water and water methanol injection.
Well I tested the propane, didnt much care for it and never got around to testing the water and water/methanol till 2012.

Wished I would have followed through with water and water/methanol testing or tested had tested it first.

I like the water based system better than the flameable gas based system.

The problem with high compression diesels and propane is if you add too much propane you get detonation, which will ruin the engine pretty quick.
I injected water/methanol (80proof) l mixes with enough methanol at high enough volume on several runs to make around 150 horsepower (had there been enough air to burn it) with no knocking.
The suburban took off like a bat out of hell and left a good cloud of smoke.

[Isaac Zackary]

Ok. So I'm seriously contemplating this for my 1.6L non-turbo 23:1 CR 1985 VW Golf diesel.

I consistently get about 55mpg gallon already on the highway. But perhaps what I'm more interested in is reducing emissions, black smoke, etc.

Any thoughts? How would this best be hooked up?

One problem I foresee is that on the Golf the air cleaner is in the top of the plenum. So if I add propane it would either have to be before the air cleaner or into each intake runner or I'd have to relocate the air cleaner.

Also this is mechanical injection. So I can't meter propane electronically by taking data off of an EFI system.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zackary

Ok. So I'm seriously contemplating this for my 1.6L non-turbo 23:1 CR 1985 VW Golf diesel.

Also this is mechanical injection. So I can't meter propane electronically by taking data off of an EFI system.

There are "illegal" systems that inject CNG instead and can include their own electronic crapola.

Personally I would not waste any effort on LPG unless it were nearly free (which it usually isn't in the US)

CNG is cheaper in most areas and cannot detonate.

Still likely a long payback.

[teoman]

How about LPG plus water. You could maybe inhibit the detonation with water.


Also, could you inject the lpg with a gasoline injector? That would make it much easier to control for us computer oriented guys. I suppose one could have to read the pressure and the temperature of the lpg before injection.

Also the evaporisation of the lpg would further cool the intake charge.

[Stubby79]

I'd like to know the long term effects of regular use, preferably on different types of engines. Not much point to saving a few bucks in diesel if you'll be replacing your engine within 6 months.

And would a small dose be beneficial to the combustion process without the risk of knocking?