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Old 02-21-2008, 07:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s2man View Post
I've always liked these plans:

http://www.3barracing.com/waterinj.htm

They use greenhouse mister nozzles for a fine spray, which you can adjust using various nozzles.
Nice link. Mine isn't Turbo, but the ideas are great!

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Old 02-21-2008, 09:06 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I understand the idea behind water injection but I'm not completely convinced about the FE benefits at part load. From what I gather, water could work in 2 ways. First it reduces combustion temp which would prevent knock and allow the computer to keep ignition fully advanced in all conditions. This makes a lot of sense on high compression/high boost turbo engines running near peak power. The other and less plausible scenario is a large enough volume of water would effectively increase the compression ratio and therefore delivering more power. Another option would be to allow you to run the car on low octane gas.

Has anybody here documented an FE increase with water injection? After reading from the forum in the above link (great link by the way) nobody had any hard data so far. I'm not saying its impossible, just don't see enough evidence that it works yet. Hopefully with time that will change.

thanks for reading
Justin

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Old 02-22-2008, 11:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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sounds good for WOT

A long time ago I noticed that Plymouth sold a chip upgrade for my breeze (same engine as a neon). It was supposed to increase horsepower, at the expense of requiring premium fuel. At the time I was rather irked, since I assumed that the car was designed for such fuel, then had the ignition retarded to match.

From reading this site, it looks like it only does that for WOT. If so, I wonder what it would take to remove that restriction (I assume anything from Mopar would be expensive, but probably just thought of the premium premium) and add some sort of booster such as water injection (I had thought of alcohol injection similar to what is used to modify turbo engines).
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:51 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Before I did anything else major on my metro I tried water injection. With it mixing water at a 10-1 ratio it actually improved mileage by 4-5%. The trouble with the simple systems is that they are nearly impossible to keep dialed in. I ran -40f rated windshield washer fluid in mine.

I quit using it after a few tanks. I got tired of it going out of adjustment every time the weather changed 5 degrees and using a gallon of water in 50 miles or quit injecting enough water and making the engine knock like crazy because the ignition was at 15 degrees advanced and was not able to run like that without the water.

I always planned on going back to water injection but this time using a fuel pump and injector to actually meter the water properly with the engine. The plan was size the pump and injector so it only puts out 10% the flow of the normal fuel injector. Something like that would work and with a 2-3 gallon water tank it would be pretty reliable. Maybe after I get done with all the craziness I am working on now I will try it out but that will probably be a while.

The other option is to suspend the water directly in the gasoline using naptha or some other stuff so the car needs no actual changes to run the water in the proper ratio. There are a few patents on this idea and the few tests I have found all showed a good increase in mileage. But coming up with the right solution and having the ability to mix the water/gas at the gas station when you fill up the car might be a real nuisance.
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Old 02-23-2008, 12:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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my setup btw was a fish tank air hose going into the washer fluid bottle. Then to a gang valve to get a measured flow with the second valve open slightly to get air bubbles in the line. Then ran to a ported vacuum source on the throttle body so it would pull more water in at mid to heavy throttle where it was needed but not at idle where it wasn't needed.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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DIY - Water Injection

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kentuck...eorge-Campbell

I listened to this link, and the gentleman says you can and he has both leaned out his carb and added up to 50% water put in thru a carb set up separate from the gas carb,and doubled the mileage in his caddy.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:44 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschool View Post
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/kentuck...eorge-Campbell

I listened to this link, and the gentleman says you can and he has both leaned out his carb and added up to 50% water put in thru a carb set up separate from the gas carb,and doubled the mileage in his caddy.
the only problem I have with guys like that is the start off with the WORST possible car they can find (I mean, really, and Carb'd Caddy??) call their "original" mileage whatever the car shows up with a poorly adjusted ignition and carb set up. They then properly adjust fuel, timing, and everything else necessary, and then add a system that further leans out the fuel mixture with NO WAY to correctly recompensate for the denser air charge (which is all water does) and VOILA they have some miracle cure. What Im afraid is left out is the fact that the car then stops running on the first day that temps go above 65 because they just leaned out their fuel trims so much that the car detonates it self to death.

Notice that these wonderful experiments are performed on cars that start out as miserable examples of fuel efficiency. Find me someone who is getting 10% increased fuel mileage out of a Prius, and I'll be impressed. Otherwise I just see a car that was so choked with poorly designed emission controls, and carbs that were unable to be well set up new, let alone 20 yrs down the road (and hasnt been corrected since) that changing the oil is going to give you increased mileage and performance.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
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what about water/meth. mix ??
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:10 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I thought I had posted in this thread before ????


I did see SOME FE gains with Water injection on the Supra. My setup was super cheap, proportional to the Fuel flow, and worked well.

In a Nut shell Fuel pump, Fuel pressure Regulator and 1 injector sized to be ~10% of the Sum of all of your FUEL injectors. I had 6 550 CC/Min's and 1 370 CC/Min injector for water. I ten taped the "7th injector" to one of the Batch lines, plumed it up and it worked well.

If anyone is interested, let me know and I'll explain in much more detail.

A buddy just won an AEM Water/ methanol Injection kit, I'll let you guys know how it works when we get it on his car.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COMP View Post
what about water/meth. mix ??
Meth-Alcohol? Doesn't it cost more than the regular stuff?

I was reading another article on Mother Earth News that at 202 proof, you can burn pure alcohol. They've even got a variety of homemade stills (tower) for the backyard. Worth checking out.

In either case, making your own with newsprint or wood chips would be cheap enough (rainwater from the eaves), and Mother Earth showed which are the best sources for the starter yeast and making your own yeast culture. Just run a search for the keywords, and then search for the expert named in the article.

If you really want to make it for almost zero cost, build a small solar water heater from a good sized dual-pane window.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Moder...rd-Stills.aspx

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It...-Cookbook.aspx

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Moder...-Solution.aspx

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green...-And-Cons.aspx

One Search I did:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/searc...rch=distillery

Wood Alcohol:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_...d_alcohol.html

Hope that helps.

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