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Old 04-23-2021, 05:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Can't you two just get along?!

Is it me or is this a one-sided feud?
Aerohead posts a lot of material here that is wrong, misleading or deceptive. At least in the last few years, I'd suggest most of his posts fall into the above three categories.

I - and a couple of other forum members - point this out on a post by post basis.

So I don't think your description is accurate.

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Old 04-23-2021, 05:52 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
Well, I'd give myself at least an ' incompletely' unhelpful.
* I've no idea what a Mercury Tracer Trio is.
* I've no idea what the operational envelope of the proposed vehicle would be.
* Without the envelope there's no way to predict the road load.
* Without the road load there's no way to compute the required brake horsepower requirement.
* Without the brake horsepower requirement there'd be no way to come up with the heat flux, even with a BSFC map.
* Without the heat flux, we can't anticipate if any of the two original radiators would be adequate to dissipate it, or if the Metro water pump would be adequate for the necessary ( but unknown ) coolant flow rate.
* there's a heat transfer coefficient involved ( an unknown )
* will there be an air conditioning condenser coil upstream of the radiator, to add to its work?
* what is the difference in energy / distance / degree ratings? ( conductance capacity )
* are there options to coolant chemistry and chemical compatibility with existing components.
* ditch the mechanical water pump and go with a Messier electric, variable-speed pump with sensor and logic ?
I'd need some more data.
I can't work out if you just know very little about car modification, or choose to deliberately make things difficult. You've never done an engine swap and chosen an appropriate radiator?
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Old 04-23-2021, 07:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
* Without the heat flux, we can't anticipate if any of the two original radiators would be adequate to dissipate it, or if the Metro water pump would be adequate for the necessary ( but unknown ) coolant flow rate.
I think you're missing a point.

The metro radiator is the stock radiator for that engine, so yes, it would be sufficient as well as the water pump.

Given the scope of this cite it would be safe to assume we are looking at an econo-box. One that is full of tinkering, so a general idea of what might work is pretty much what I was hoping for.

Edit:
No sense in waiting to post about it. I am really interested in trying to mimic the 911 carrera's radiator setup. I like a bare engine bay, the minimalist look you might say. So I was thinking maybe I could try and use some ducting and tuck the radiator (whatever it might end up being) between the bumper and wheel wells. The stock radiators seem WAY too big to fit in that area. So I was hoping to do some initial research into what might work. Then when the time comes maybe do some testing. Since it would require dismantling and building a custom setup each time I'd like to get a solid plan down before tearing into it.
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Last edited by M_a_t_t; 04-23-2021 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 04-23-2021, 09:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_a_t_t View Post
I think you're missing a point.

The metro radiator is the stock radiator for that engine, so yes, it would be sufficient as well as the water pump.

Given the scope of this cite it would be safe to assume we are looking at an econo-box. One that is full of tinkering, so a general idea of what might work is pretty much what I was hoping for.

Edit:
No sense in waiting to post about it. I am really interested in trying to mimic the 911 carrera's radiator setup. I like a bare engine bay, the minimalist look you might say. So I was thinking maybe I could try and use some ducting and tuck the radiator (whatever it might end up being) between the bumper and wheel wells. The stock radiators seem WAY too big to fit in that area. So I was hoping to do some initial research into what might work. Then when the time comes maybe do some testing. Since it would require dismantling and building a custom setup each time I'd like to get a solid plan down before tearing into it.
The normal approach is to either (1) use the radiator that's fitted as standard with the new engine or (2) select a radiator from another car that cools an engine of a similar power output*.

I'd imagine you'd want to use two small radiators, one each side, to allow easier ducting to the area in front of the wheels. So use approach (2) above, with each of the new radiators normally working with an engine of at least half the power of your new engine.

But I might add: what you're embarking on will be a huge amount of work with no guarantee of success in reducing drag.

*and normally of a similar engine type

Last edited by JulianEdgar; 04-23-2021 at 09:33 PM.. Reason: expansion
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Old 04-23-2021, 11:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm not worried about losing drag as much as the tucking of the radiator. At this point the car has become a balance of what I want to experiment with and best fuel economy. The fuel economy is just the practical benefit/side effect.

Cooling System Basics - Keep It Cool - Super Chevy Magazine

I read this article and it seems the basic factors are thickness (thickness or the core and number of cores) and the area. The material is of course important, but it also says all modern radiators typically use the same design so I shouldn't have to worry about the material. So it seems if I know these numbers from the stock radiator I should be able to come up with a reasonable guess at what would be adequate as a replacement.

Does that logic work out for everyone else?

I also realize it would be a lot of work, but until I take it apart and look at the details it's something I want to consider
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Old 04-24-2021, 04:01 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Area x core x passes x material.


U.S. Radiator Core Designs
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My reading of Pearce (mitpress.mit.edu/books/structure-nature-strategy-design suggests that an aluminum small-scale gyroid* fillled box would make an excellent radiator. Conventional radiators rely on a tube and fin arrangement that throttles heat transfer. As a gyroid reduces in scale, it increases in surface area.

Maybe one of our resident experts could run the numbers. I'm getting closer to being able to produce a test part. Tomorrow I have to find a local source for PLA filament.

Quote:
* The gyroid separates space into two oppositely congruent labyrinths of passages. The gyroid has space group I4132 (no. 214).[5] Channels run through the gyroid labyrinths in the (100) and (111) directions; passages emerge at 70.5 degree angles to any given channel as it is traversed, the direction at which they do so gyrating down the channel, giving rise to the name "gyroid".
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Old 04-24-2021, 04:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I honestly don't understand this group sometimes. It's like people want to make the most straightforward things as ridiculously complex as possible.

Why don't we start with some questions.

Have you done a water-cooled engine swap?

If 'no' - then don't answer any further.

If 'yes' - how did you select the new radiator and what were the results?
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Old 04-24-2021, 08:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Yes.

It was a common engine swap. I used the stock radiator for the original engine as everyone found it adequate.

Results were fine. Haven't had any issues.

The problem with the half as much power radiator is that this engine is supposed to make 80 hp. The only radiator I know of (haven't gone looking yet though) close to half is my civics (55 hp) radiator which is still way too big. It's pretty much the same size as the metro's radiator.
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Last edited by M_a_t_t; 04-24-2021 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 04-24-2021, 01:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I only just bought a water-cooled car, so I'm talking out of my.... brain?

Can you use water in an oil cooler?


Quote:
Earl’s coolers are manufactured with -10 AN female O-ring ports. From here, you simply use an AN adapter to go to your cooler hose size (which is typically -6AN – Earl’s #585106ERL shown here).
http://www.onallcylinders.com/2017/0...-cooler-guide/

It looks like heater hose would fit.
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Old 04-24-2021, 06:14 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JulianEdgar View Post
Have you done a water-cooled engine swap?

If 'no' - then don't answer any further.

If 'yes' - how did you select the new radiator and what were the results?
Yes x 2.

On one car I used the radiator from the car with the upgrade engine.

On the other car, I retained the standard radiator (it was similar size and thickness to donor car's radiator, but was copper and not aluminium).

No cooling problems with either car.

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