Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-27-2019, 06:37 PM   #231 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: WV
Posts: 923

IGL - '04 Saturn Ion
Team Saturn
90 day: 53.89 mpg (US)
Thanks: 35
Thanked 203 Times in 162 Posts
You deleted the front sway bar, right? Consider that most FWD cars come with a front sway bar and usually are tuned for understeer, and it makes sense that you’re experiencing oversteer in snow, especially when you also consider that you removed lots of weight from the rear of the car (still living with the hatch delete?)...

I would give some serious thought to putting the front sway bar back on and relocating the battery to the rear...

__________________
My current Ecotec project...


My last Ecotec project...
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-27-2019, 06:38 PM   #232 (permalink)
Master Ecomadman
 
arcosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 1,104

sc1 - '98 saturn sc1
Team Saturn
90 day: 43.17 mpg (US)

Airplane Bike - '11 home built Carp line Tour

rans - '97 rans tailwind

tractor - '66 International Cub cadet 129

2002 Space Odyssey - '02 Honda Odyssey EX-L
90 day: 28.25 mpg (US)

red bug - '00 VW beetle TDI

big tractor - '66 ford 3400

red vw - '00 VW new beetle TDI
90 day: 58.42 mpg (US)
Thanks: 17
Thanked 289 Times in 195 Posts
I use to think the skinniest tires were best in snow, so I put 165/80R15 tires on my 87 4wd Subaru. Well they were not really snow tires, and so what would happen in the snow, is the tires would pack the snow down, then slide off the sideways off the mound. Fatter tires wouldn't slide off sideways.

You need another 500 lbs in the car.

Sway bar has nothing to to with it.
__________________
- Tony


Last edited by arcosine; 01-27-2019 at 07:17 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2019, 03:00 PM   #233 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
I'm happy to say I'm not the only person with this issue: I was recently behind an old Ford Ranger who I noticed was constantly correcting oversteer through a gentle, sweeping highway curve in slippy conditions at ~65 km/h (40 mph)



Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
Have you put it on a scale to get the front/rear axle weights?
Nope never have done this.

Quote:
You deleted the front sway bar, right? Consider that most FWD cars come with a front sway bar and usually are tuned for understeer, and it makes sense that you’re experiencing oversteer in snow, especially when you also consider that you removed lots of weight from the rear of the car (still living with the hatch delete?)...

I would give some serious thought to putting the front sway bar back on and relocating the battery to the rear...
Good memory!! Good theory! Yes both F/R bars are off the car.

HOWEVER, you would need weight transfer for this theory to work, and I swear there was so little traction when this happened, there would have been no suspension compression to speak of for the bar(s) to work against.

I'm talking about driving through the gentlest of curves at a moderate speed with hardly any steering input.

So far I've put all the interior bits/hardware back into the rear of the car. (Partly also because it's noisy driving on wet roads, and the roads are mostly wet this time of year.) I also have a bit of extra weight I can add to the cargo area. But I haven't yet had a chance to drive it on slippery roads since doing this.

Will keep you posted.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
freebeard (02-06-2019)
Old 02-06-2019, 11:22 PM   #234 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Panelia, Finland
Posts: 119

Yaris verso - '02 Toyota Yaris Verso

Anjovis - '98 Toyota Avensis
Thanks: 16
Thanked 17 Times in 16 Posts
How about your tires age? I ruined our winter tires by storing them outside not too well shaded and supposedly "dried" them in the sun. Lousy traction this winter.
Also: what kind of tires are they?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 09:40 AM   #235 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
These are the tires on it:





Lots of meat, not sure what age they are, but at least 5 years. Probably more. The treads themselves are still easily squishable by hand. They're not hard as hockey pucks. I store them in bags in the shed in the summer.


That said, I have driven the Firefly with ancient and terribly slippery "all-season" tires in the snow, and it was definitely not as tail-happy as this Metro. I'm still holding on to the idea the difference is the weight in the rear. I would confirm today, but that would require me to scrape a layer of ice off the windows from freezing rain.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2019, 04:11 PM   #236 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
weight seems to have worked

I checked the date on the snow tires: just under 5 years old.

And I had it out this afternoon. MAN! It's like a fat old luxury car - so quiet with the interior back in. What a treat! And it rides noticeably smoother with the stock weight in it, plus a few extra lbs in the cargo area. Cadillac, baby!

And the handling seems much more stable. I didn't get to test highway speeds, but on a snow-covered road at ~65 km/h = 40 mph, I had to flick the steering to get the back end wagging, whereas before I had to actively steer it to keep it in line.

Next slippy highway trip will confirm, but I think that was it.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
COcyclist (03-09-2019), Daox (02-08-2019)
Old 02-11-2019, 10:16 PM   #237 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
222222 kms




So on the current tank of gas, I will have put 10,000 km (~6200 mi.) on the winter beater Metro. That's in just over 2 years, and mostly winter duty.

I was going to say I have a love/hate relationship with this wee beastie, but maybe it's more like a "tolerate/hate" relationship.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	odometer-222222.jpg
Views:	84
Size:	58.7 KB
ID:	25539  
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2019, 03:51 PM   #238 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
10,000 km Review




The Metro just passed 10k km (~6k miles) in my care.

I got it in July, 2016, so that works out just 4000 km a year on average.

It's a like/hate relationship:

1) Like: Lifetime Fuel Economy: 59 mpg (US), 4 L/100 km, 70.9 mpg



Considering most of my driving is in cold weather/winter conditions, I'm OK with that.

2) Hate: crap clutch

Despite having been replaced by the previous owner just 30k km ago, the clutch in this car is garbage. I'm pretty sure it's got broken damping springs in the disc. The weird thing is the problems come and go. I've complained about it before: Update: self-healing clutch. I don't hate it enough to fix it, though!

3) Like: hmmm...

Having trouble thinking of anything else nice to say about it. It's easier to load up with skis, snowboards & kayaks than the MPGiata?

4) Hate: reliability

Hate might be too strong a word -- it hasn't left me stranded (yet). But it's come pretty close.
  1. Fried wire between the starter & solenoid (but yay: it's light enough to push start pretty easily!); since repaired.
  2. Electrical glitch causing it to intermittently stall out/run rough (traced to a mystery bare wire shorting to ground against the pedal assembly).
  3. CEL codes:
    (A) frequent P0455 for an evap leak
    (B) P0400 for EGR -- I cleaned the valve, but it came back. Need to roto-rooter the passages, I guess.
    (C) P0420 for catalyst -- this one popped up a few weeks ago. Hasn't come back since resetting.
Is it reasonable to complain about the reliability of a $1000, 20 year-old car? It's led a pretty charmed life - lots of care & maintenance from its 4-owner string of owners.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10000.png
Views:	53
Size:	30.9 KB
ID:	25569  
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
Xist (03-04-2019)
Old 03-04-2019, 12:35 PM   #239 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 20,849

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
Last 3: 51.27 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.51 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,685
Thanked 5,595 Times in 2,872 Posts
EBH - RIP




Last time I went to use the block heater, I noticed a lack of "spark" when plugging the cord to AC power. Confirmed inoperative by touch-test after left plugged in for a little while.

I haven't trouble-shot it yet. Could be plug (hopefully), could be element.

Fortunately (yay), spring is nearly upon us, so I'm not desperate to fix it.


The forecast shows the sap should start flowing next week (days above freezing, nights below). I had a great winter, full of fun activities, but I'm ready for it to be over now.
__________________
Latest mods test: 15 mods = 15% MPG improvement: A-B test, 2007 Honda Civic 1.8L, 5-speed
Ecodriving test:
Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown: Nissan Micra 1.6L



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2019, 07:06 PM   #240 (permalink)
Aero Wannabe
 
COcyclist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NW Colo
Posts: 563

TDi - '04 VW Golf
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 55.07 mpg (US)
Thanks: 389
Thanked 124 Times in 98 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
4) Hate: reliability

Hate might be too strong a word -- it hasn't left me stranded (yet). But it's come pretty close.
  1. Fried wire between the starter & solenoid (but yay: it's light enough to push start pretty easily!); since repaired.
  2. Electrical glitch causing it to intermittently stall out/run rough (traced to a mystery bare wire shorting to ground against the pedal assembly).
  3. CEL codes:
    (A) frequent P0455 for an evap leak
    (B) P0400 for EGR -- I cleaned the valve, but it came back. Need to roto-rooter the passages, I guess.
    (C) P0420 for catalyst -- this one popped up a few weeks ago. Hasn't come back since resetting.
Is it reasonable to complain about the reliability of a $1000, 20 year-old car? It's led a pretty charmed life - lots of care & maintenance from its 4-owner string of owners.
Is the “Electrical glitch” the problem in this thread? https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ing-36656.html
If so, care to elaborate/update for us?

__________________
60 mpg hwy highest, 55+mpg lifetime
TDi=fast frugal fun
make NOx not Carbon


Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com