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Old 06-26-2019, 11:59 PM   #631 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Maybe the manual's shorter gearing puts the car at better BSFC? even though spinning at much lower RPMs than the automatic provides would improve economy even more.

Sounds like the perfect candidate for lean burn.
I could see peak BSFC being better at closer to the manual's RPM maybe, but every BSFC map I've ever seen is "wide" rather than "tall", which is to say even if peak BSFC is at a higher RPM, you're still better off with higher load and lower RPM.

I think you're spot on with the lean burn idea.

That's coming very soon in my Insight, I nearly have my fuel maps clean enough.

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Old 06-27-2019, 12:04 AM   #632 (permalink)
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Best BSFC for acceleration and lowest RPM for cruising, right. The Fit auto has neither so that's probably why it performs worse.

Any wild ideas of lean burn tuning on the Fit after the Insight is done?
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Old 06-27-2019, 12:27 AM   #633 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy View Post
Best BSFC for acceleration and lowest RPM for cruising, right. The Fit auto has neither so that's probably why it performs worse.

Any wild ideas of lean burn tuning on the Fit after the Insight is done?
I don't know if it has a narrow or wideband O2 sensor. You need a wideband for lean burn, and most will only go out to 18:1 or 19:1 reliably. You could, hypothetically, intercept the O2 sensor wire and change its resistance value to lean things out, but you'd need to make darn certain it only happens at low throttle and load or bad things can happen.

Just leaning out the motor is very suboptimal though. A lean mixture burns slower (slower flame front) so if ignition timing isn't advanced a lot, the piston would simply outrun the kaboom and your economy might get worse rather than better. To adjust ignition timing you need a programmable ECU, which means either custom (you'd probably lose gauge cluster operation) or something like Hondata's FlashPro:

https://www.hondata.com/flashpro/flashpro-fit

^ It's not as powerful as a hardware solution but you can edit a lot of engine parameters anyway. Dunno if you could make a wideband work if the ECU doesn't naively support one.

Edit: confirmed Fit has a wideband.

Last edited by Ecky; 06-27-2019 at 12:37 AM..
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Old 06-27-2019, 09:39 AM   #634 (permalink)
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Pass on the Fit!

One of the benefits of living in a small place: without even bringing the Fit in, my mechanic advised taking a hard pass on it. He knows the car & its owner and says it's lived a very hard life... rode hard and put away wet.

He sometimes buys cars to repair & re-sell, and he said he wouldn't even touch this one himself.
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Old 06-27-2019, 11:04 AM   #635 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Some further thoughts on the 1st gen Fit:

I feel like it's a very well built car, with a few odd things cut from it to save costs.

Handling is good to great from the factory, especially considering the type of suspension it needs to have that cavernous interior which allows two (not tall) people to stretch out and sleep comfortably in a subcompact.

The cargo space is ludicrous. My partner and I regularly crack jokes when moving things, "Think it'll Fit? Oh wait, why am I bothering to ask, of course it will." The rear seats fold down into the floor and give a ~5.5ft x ~40" completely flat and very tall cargo area. The door panels are very narrow to maximize interior width. Honda moved the gas tank under the driver seat to improve cargo space and give a more upright seating position, while keeping a low center of gravity.

Materials inside could be called "cheap" much like Subaru interiors are "cheap", but you can beat the crap out of them. Lots of textured hard black plastic. Seats are surprisingly comfortable though, considering how minimal they are.

The L15A engine in the 1st gen has gobs of torque for an engine as small as it is, but don't bother revving it, there's not much high-end. I understand the 2nd gen can breath better at higher revs but the few times I've been in one, I haven't had the chance or inclination to do any spirited driving. These engines are absolutely bulletproof too.

Fuel economy in the manual is fantastic considering the car is a brick with short gearing.

One issue in the 1st gen, probably the only common thing to fail under the hood, is that the coil packs don't have typical Honda longevity. That's the most common cause of a poor-running L15A, but luckily they're dirt cheap.

As far as cost savings, it's weird the little things missing from the car. Only the driver's door has a key hole, for instance - I don't think there's even one on the hatch. There's virtually no sound insulation, though it's still not an overly noisy ride. Amenities: it's primitive for a car of its vintage. One 12v port, halogen headlights, seats have manual tilt adjustment and forward-back slide, it has a radio which is half decent, and that's where the feature list ends. No temperature gauge, no battery gauge, feel lucky Honda deigned to give it power locks and windows.
I currently drive a 92 Metro base, so sounds luxurious to me!

I am curious about this 'Honda tax' you guys mentioned, I've never heard of it before.
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Old 06-27-2019, 01:06 PM   #636 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaneajanderson View Post
I currently drive a 92 Metro base, so sounds luxurious to me!

I am curious about this 'Honda tax' you guys mentioned, I've never heard of it before.
We paid $3300 for a 190k mile 12 year old Fit and I felt it was a steal. Hondas hold their resale value, moreso in some areas than others.
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Old 06-27-2019, 02:34 PM   #637 (permalink)
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Quote:
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We paid $3300 for a 190k mile 12 year old Fit and I felt it was a steal. Hondas hold their resale value, moreso in some areas than others.
Ok, I was thinking actually getting robbed by the government for buying a specific brand.

In ND Honda's don't really hold value, certain Toyota's do, but most people up here fit into two categories:

1. Fanboys to one of the big 3, and usually won't drive anything but a full-size V8 pickup with 4WD

2. Totally clueless about cars in everyway, go to the dealership and buy what they think looks good, and believe every word the car salesman says.
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Old 06-27-2019, 10:45 PM   #638 (permalink)
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Paying more just because it's a Honda... That's why I bought it new. A year or two old used was only about $3k less than brand new. When I sell mine, well, it weighs so little it won't even be worth much as scrap!

Can't for the life of me remember why, but I was glad to get a 2nd gen over a 1st and thrilled to grab one of the last new 2nd gens available, to avoid getting stuck with a 3rd. It was over 5 years ago, and I don't remember or care about the differences between them now. I just still love my 2nd gen.

Manuals... I've always seen the low gearing as being for perceived sportiness or peppiness, not BSFC. My best top gear mpg happens at 45 mph, hardly something a factory would target. But as much as I complain about the aero and low gearing, when I'm driving on the highway for time it still gets around 36 mpg. I'm talking about keeping it below 90 when the road allows, and only hypermiling (as such) when in traffic.
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Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

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Old 06-27-2019, 11:31 PM   #639 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Charlie View Post
Manuals... I've always seen the low gearing as being for perceived sportiness or peppiness, not BSFC. My best top gear mpg happens at 45 mph, hardly something a factory would target. But as much as I complain about the aero and low gearing, when I'm driving on the highway for time it still gets around 36 mpg. I'm talking about keeping it below 90 when the road allows, and only hypermiling (as such) when in traffic.
Probably wasn't their intent, but it may be the case anyway. People apparently don't like shifting out of 5th on the highway for hills, so they geared it shorter? Seriously, why did they buy a manual then if they don't like manually shifting lol!
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Old 06-29-2019, 02:13 AM   #640 (permalink)
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Quote:
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We paid $3300 for a 190k mile 12 year old Fit and I felt it was a steal. Hondas hold their resale value, moreso in some areas than others.
I wouldn't call that a steal. You could buy my 5-year-old Cruze with only 72k miles for that. And I know... Honda, Honda,... But I would still take the 11-year newer vehicle. Seems crazy to me

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