Electric car tipping point

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Anyone pondered that for you to have electric vehicles or indeed energy stored in a battery, you also need a reliable source of electricity.

If I had an electric vehicle that would otherwise meet my needs (& wants), electricity would not be a problem. I could easily handle all my driving needs with rooftop PV. (Granted, I live in one of the sunnier parts of the US.)

[darcane]

Originally Posted by UltArc

Tesla makes their own cars...they do not convert gas cars.

But they did to get their foot in the door. Google "Tesla Roadster"...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by darcane

But they did to get their foot in the door. Google "Tesla Roadster"...

But the Roadster wasn't a conversion - that is, it didn't take an existing IC-engined car, rip out the motor, and install EV parts. They just chose to have Lotus build a body & chassis based on, but not identical to, the Elise.

[darcane]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

But the Roadster wasn't a conversion - that is, it didn't take an existing IC-engined car, rip out the motor, and install EV parts. They just chose to have Lotus build a body & chassis based on, but not identical to, the Elise.

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe...

To aid initial development and greatly simplify getting safety approval, they used a platform for an ICE car, modified it as needed, and added electrical bits. I would still call this converting an ICE car, they just started the conversion a little earlier in the manufacturing process than you or I could.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, far from it. It saves tremendously on R&D costs which is a huge hurdle for a new automotive manufacturer. But it's a far cry from designing an electric car from the ground up like they did with the Model S. Even with Musk's prodigious capital, I don't think Tesla could have started out with the Model S and been successful.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by darcane

TBut it's a far cry from designing an electric car from the ground up like they did with the Model S.

Though letting Lotus do the body & chassis produced a much better result (IMHO, anyway) than the over-sized, over-accessorized Model S.

[UltArc]

Originally Posted by darcane

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe...

To aid initial development and greatly simplify getting safety approval, they used a platform for an ICE car, modified it as needed, and added electrical bits. I would still call this converting an ICE car, they just started the conversion a little earlier in the manufacturing process than you or I could.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, far from it. It saves tremendously on R&D costs which is a huge hurdle for a new automotive manufacturer. But it's a far cry from designing an electric car from the ground up like they did with the Model S. Even with Musk's prodigious capital, I don't think Tesla could have started out with the Model S and been successful.

Notice how Elio is "in process" for the past X years (no pun intended)? They are building everything on their own from scratch. Tesla made a proof of concept they could sell, THEN developed their own.

Though this is a partial truth, seven years ago they did do what you said- even if they stopped three years ago, and have been successfully building their own vehicles since then. I do think it was smarter to get a working platform and build off of it- kind of like how that nimble guy is using a Nissan frame for his, before building his own.

[Fat Charlie]

I'm feeling very entertained by all this today.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

An Elio 0.8 or 0.9 back in 2013 would have fallen well short of all the dreamed of benchmarks that the Elio 1.0 hopes to hit.

Except one: It would exist.

It would also have sold. It would have been generating more attention than all the powerpoint presentations being given to investors and it would have been bringing money in the whole time- all with the understanding that it wasn't the ideal Elio, that the next Elio would be even better. There would be an active Elio owners' group building a cult instead of nothing but of an active Elio ridicule thread here.

Now if Paul Elio were working a decade before anyone had heard of Elon Musk, his wrongheadedness would be excusable. But Musk showed how it's done... and Elio is doing something else. He sure isn't in the manufacturing/automotive/whatever business.

[niky]

Musk had the luxury of selling... uh... luxury cars.

Of course, the Elio isn't a luxury car, but a low-cost three-wheeler. That doesn't mean you can't sell it on a luxury premise... the freedom of a bike with better weather protection, safety and maybe even AC.

So many things you could do better, faster, cheaper... if you weren't trying to milk government subsidies and loans for all they were worth...

[Fat Charlie]

Building any company from nothing takes a lot of time and capital. Using preexisting parts and designs where possible can save a lot of steps, allowing the company to have something to sell.

Elio didn't bother to design and build swivel chairs for his office. He didn't write his own office software or design software. He didn't grow his own coffee beans for the break room. If he did any of that he would have been dismissed as a lunatic.

But he isn't using off the shelf turn signal and marker lights, is he? Nooo, he had someone design them fresh. And he isn't considered an idiot.

He's identified a niche that isn't being filled. He could cobble together something to fill that niche and sell it at a profit while developing the one that does it best- and the early buyers would be happy to upgrade to the new one when it comes out. But he doesn't want to fill that niche- he's making his money without having to produce anything.

[Xist]

Something something naked emperor...