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Old 10-02-2009, 09:29 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Not unless you can put a smaller engine into your vehicle.
A lot of cars already have a small enough engine that they can gain FE by simply adding a turbo. No down sizing required. Take a look an LPT (low pressure turbo) volvo. It will climb steep. Hills at low RPM (1000-1500) in third gear at low speed all day and return better FE than the NA version in the same situation.

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Old 10-02-2009, 10:26 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If this thing only produces 12 hp, why not belt an eTek (72V * 200A = 14.4kW = 19.2 hp) to the accessory drive, put in a small LiFePo pack, toss the alternator for a DC/DC and use regenerative braking to "supercharge" the car directly?
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
So what we're saying is, this is a dead end. Turbos already do a better job.
This is a HP at efficiencies sake device, but it gets the HP ninnies ookie parts all tingly so the subject will never "die" itself

But for efficiency, rather than use a motor to push air into the engine, use the exhaust to run your alternator:
Green Car Congress: TIGERS: Exhaust Gas to Electricity for Reductions in Fuel Consumption
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
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dcb - Welcome to the wonderful world of sarcasm!

That's why I put "works" in quotes... I've read a bunch of threads and that article in TurboPower about how this thing will "work" for just about everyone.
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Old 10-02-2009, 10:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I would probably use any forced induction system less than 1% of the time I was driving.

I would much rather it be something that did not have a belt or a blade spinning in my exhaust system all the time for that 1%.

Life expectancy would be several times the life of my engine.

Slightly larger battery and alternator, which could also drive the rest of the accessories with electricity instead of fan belts.

Electric water pumps and AC is already here, so is power steering. With an electric supercharger you need no more fan belt driven accessories.

Smart charging could use DFCO to apply maximum charging when you are using no fuel.

I think it will become a part of an improved system, not any "dead end"

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Old 10-02-2009, 11:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
I would probably use any forced induction system less than 1% of the time I was driving.

I would much rather it be something that did not have a belt or a blade spinning in my exhaust system all the time for that 1%.

Life expectancy would be several times the life of my engine.

Slightly larger battery and alternator, which could also drive the rest of the accessories with electricity instead of fan belts.

Electric water pumps and AC is already here, so is power steering. With an electric supercharger you need no more fan belt driven accessories.

Smart charging could use DFCO to apply maximum charging when you are using no fuel.

I think it will become a part of an improved system, not any "dead end"

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If you have a permanently installed parasitic forced induction system, you're using it any time you're on the throttle, my friend.

Superchargers can circumvent this by way of changing the speed at which the rotors are able to compress and hold back an air charge, but turbos begin altering the volumetric efficiency of an engine as soon as they begin spinning, basically.

Even if you're not in positive boost, a heat-driven turbine is still pushing enough air to reduce the amount of vacuum the engine is seeing, which is why when you have a turbo and you're driving for efficiency, you'd want to accelerate in such a way that the turbo would account for vacuum totally, making your intake neutral, and almost relieving pumping losses altogether.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:55 AM   #17 (permalink)
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...a "self-propelled" air pump, where the farts (exhaust) are doing chest-compression to keep the engine breathing (intake).

...sounds sorta "perpetual motion-ish" to me.

Last edited by gone-ot; 10-03-2009 at 11:56 AM.. Reason: corrected spelling error
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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error that I can think of....

the static pressure..it is not going to let go knowing there is engine firing its destination. the most successful boost is direct driven, like supercharge, and even better a liquid cooled turbo with an oiling system from the engine. FMICS are popular more for this than turbo hot rodders even know for the most part..they are grounding the static, it makes the engine happy. one could feed it hot air all day long, as long as it is neutral, and get the same results. I do not like the electric charger.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Here's a thought - It takes energy to compress air... and it takes MORE ENERGY still to keep it compressed, while still flowing air. Without doing the math, I can make the assumption that energy required for a direct compression device to achieve and maintain compression will increase in a strictly non-linear relationship with the amount of compression achieved.

(In other words, the higher the boost, the more the amp draw. The charger won't run at full capacity all the time, but when it gets into boost, it's probably going to take more than it's really rated for, if it can maintain boost at all.)
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:45 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Yah, not sure about the 1% bit for that part but by all means test it out mech. If you think there is a large enough scenario where it makes sense then go for it.

For my own style (mostly p&g, not many long trips) that thing would be on whenever the engine is on (assuming I downsized) and I might need another alternator or two to keep the lights on in between pulses. In fact since I am either accelerating or gliding 99.9% of the time I'm pretty sure I would never consider this electric blower approach.

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