EcoModder Forum Electric Vehicles mileage database?

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 04-15-2013, 07:47 AM #1 (permalink) EcoModding Lurker   Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: italy Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Electric Vehicles mileage database? I found some physic/math formulas which allow me to calculate how much power and energy a vehicle needs to move at different speeds. As all of you know this depends on vehicle Cd and Frontal Area, so I actually have a quite large range of values. I'm looking for real data of different EVs at different speeds to compare to my simulation results: does it exist such kind of database around? And, most difficult, does it exist for motorbikes? (I wonder why motorbikes are so rare in vehicle mechanics literature!) I currently have this data for an electric minicar (400 kg) with Cd=0.3 and FA=2.2 m^2: Code: km/h mph Wh/km Wh/mi W 10 6 23 37 230 20 12 25 40 509 30 19 30 48 887 36 22 33 53 1182 40 25 35 56 1414 50 31 43 69 2139 54 34 46 74 2495 60 37 52 83 3111 70 44 63 101 4381 80 50 75 120 5997 90 56 89 143 8010 100 62 105 168 10468 108 67 118 189 12789 110 69 122 196 13422 120 75 141 226 16920 130 81 162 260 21013 140 87 184 295 25749 150 94 208 333 31179 This is for motorbike (Cd=0.7, FA=0.7) Code: km/h mph Wh/km Wh/mi W 10 6 23 37 228 20 12 25 40 492 30 19 28 45 830 36 22 30 48 1083 40 25 32 51 1278 50 31 37 59 1873 54 34 40 64 2161 60 37 44 71 2652 70 44 52 83 3652 80 50 61 98 4909 90 56 72 115 6460 100 62 83 133 8342 108 67 94 151 10111 110 69 96 154 10592 120 75 110 176 13246 130 81 126 202 16342 140 87 142 228 19915 150 94 160 256 24004 W formula: E1=(C\$3+0,5*L\$2*L\$3*L\$4*I1*I1)*I1C3=Rolling Friction (= roll friction coefficient 0,015 * weight x 9,81) L2=Cd L3=FA L4=air density = 1,167 I1= speed in m/s Wh/km formula: D1=E1/J1J1 = speed in km/h If there are no mileage data around, it will be enough to have Cd and FA for vehicles (bot cars and bikes), I'll calculate mileage by above formulas. edit: Values for flat road, constant speed. update: added wh/km edit2: deleted "thousands dots" added mph column Last edited by jumpjack; 04-16-2013 at 03:53 AM..
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 04-15-2013, 09:07 AM #2 (permalink) Master EcoModder     Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Western Wisconsin Posts: 3,903 honda cb125 - '74 Honda CB 125 S1 90 day: 79.71 mpg (US) green wedge - '81 Commuter Vehicles Inc. Commuti-Car Blue VX - '93 Honda Civic VX Thanks: 867 Thanked 433 Times in 353 Posts Not sure why, but both of those charts seem to give figures that are low.
04-15-2013, 02:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ryland Not sure why, but both of those charts seem to give figures that are low.
I think it's because they are calculated for a constant speed on a flat road with 0% slope: impossible in real life!
But you can consider these values as "mimimum energy consumption": you can't go lower, only higher.

As per my experience, average cosumptions are (more or less):
1000-2000 W Ebike: 30-50 Wh/km
3000-5000 W Ebike: 60-70 Wh/km
4-6 kW minicar (45 km/h): 80 Wh/km
6-8 kW minicar (80 km/h): 100 Wh/km
small car: 150 Wh/km
big car: 200 Wh/km

But having real and more detailed data would be really interesting!

 04-15-2013, 05:39 PM #4 (permalink) EcoModding Lurcher     Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 325 Thanks: 148 Thanked 104 Times in 76 Posts Hi jumpjack, So its in mostly conventional units but look: The ecomodder calculator. Your chart doesn't seem to have any weight of vehicle. If I run with your Cd and area, I see this. 550 KG (1200 lb) is a very light car. -mort
04-15-2013, 08:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Ryland Not sure why, but both of those charts seem to give figures that are low.
I think because it's in metric kilometers, which gives smaller values making everything seem more efficient.
Quote:
 Originally Posted by mort Hi jumpjack, So its in mostly conventional units but look: The ecomodder calculator. Your chart doesn't seem to have any weight of vehicle. If I run with your Cd and area, I see this. 550 KG (1200 lb) is a very light car. -mort
Speaking about very light cars, check out the ridiculously efficient wh/m rating vs speed graph for the Edison2. 200 miles range at 60mph with 16kwh.
Edison2 - Very Light Blog - And The Consequences Are

Use the Calculator at the top of the forum. Use the KWH needed at speed / the speed to get the wh/km or mi rating.
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04-16-2013, 03:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by mort Hi jumpjack, So its in mostly conventional units but look: The ecomodder calculator. Your chart doesn't seem to have any weight of vehicle. If I run with your Cd and area, I see this. 550 KG (1200 lb) is a very light car. -mort
I updated the tables adding Wh/mi.
The weight of the vehicle is included by means of rolling friction (--> rolling power), but it slightly affects result, as it depends on "v", while air friction depends on "v^3".

This table shows how much rolling friction affects total power:
Code:
Pair+Proll 	 Proll 	Proll/Ptot
228 	 221 	97%
492 	 443 	90%
830 	 664 	80%
1083 	 797 	74%
1278 	 886 	69%
1873 	 1107 	59%
2161 	 1196 	55%
2652 	 1328 	50%
3652 	 1550 	42%
4909 	 1771 	36%
6460 	 1993 	31%
8342 	 2214 	27%
10111 	 2391 	24%
10592 	 2435 	23%
13246 	 2657 	20%
16342 	 2878 	18%
19915 	 3100 	16%
24004 	 3321 	14%
Rolling friction force:
Froll = mu * m * 9,81
mu = 0,015 (rolling friction coefficient)
m = vehicle weight in kg

Simplified formula:
Froll = 0,15 * m

04-16-2013, 03:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by mort I see [URL="http://ecomodder.com/forum/tool-aero-rolling-resistance.php?Weight=550&WeightUnits=kg&CRR=.015& Cd=.3&FrontalArea=2.2&FrontalAreaUnits=m^2&FuelWh= 33557&IceEfficiency=.22&DrivetrainEfficiency=.95&P arasiticOverhead=0&rho=1.225&FromToStep=5-200-5"]this.
Cool, I didn't see the link. I eventually have something to compare my results to!

But you're right, I published results for a "very slight car" as I was studying power/energy for minicars!

Using a "real" car (1000 kg) I get of course higher results, but they also differ depending on battery weight, which depends on how much range you need, and so on....

But switching back to the original question: apart from simulated results, do they exist any experimental results to play with?

 04-16-2013, 04:03 AM #8 (permalink) EcoModding Lurker   Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: italy Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts I just found this amazing site! Automobile-Catalog the complete Catalog of Cars, car specs database Does it exist anything similar for motorbikes?
 04-16-2013, 08:01 AM #9 (permalink) .   Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: The Berkshires, Massachussetts Posts: 894 Ruby Sparks - '01 Honda Insight Team Honda 90 day: 64.27 mpg (US) Thanks: 111 Thanked 367 Times in 205 Posts This won't give you speed/whkm, but it gives you an idea of what all the EV's can do on a light drive cycle. Testing Electric Vehicles in the Real World __________________ I try to be helpful. I'm not an expert.
 04-16-2013, 08:04 AM #10 (permalink) EcoModding Lurker   Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: italy Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts I just found this amazing site! Automobile-Catalog the complete Catalog of Cars, car specs database Does it exist anything similar for motorbikes?