Elio Motors, The Next Big Thing?!!...

[NeilBlanchard]

What about a price per pound analysis? This is actually a pretty good way to understand how much it costs to build a car.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

What about a price per pound analysis? This is actually a pretty good way to understand how much it costs to build a car.

On that basis a Morgan should cost less than an F350? There are valid reasons why that isn't the case, mainly involving a Morgan being rare, great fun to drive and an icon, and an F350 being the opposite in all cases.

No this should be priced on the full monty - the materials and each operation needed to turn that raw stuff into a finished product from start to finish.

From my limited time in engineering anything involving someone doing a skilled task (e.g. welding, cutting or bending metal) tended to cost more than the materials involved, which is why we all shipped our factories to China and whu iPhones aren't made in New Mexico.

[nimblemotors]

Price by the pound works OK for boats, where the material/process is more uniform, cars not so much.

Just look at what a jetski costs, the latest low-cost one is $5,000 (more like $6k). That is way easier to make and much less parts than a car,
and has no crash testing, airbags, so forget using that as a reason for high costs.
The cheapest high volume car is $13k Removing a wheel doesn't cut the cost by 25%, but even if it did, that is still $10k.

[freebeard]

A man stands by a dead dog, by the highway, in the ditch
He's looking down kinda puzzled, poking that dog with a stick
Got his car door flung open, out on Highway 31
Like if he stood there long enough, that dog would up and run.

CHORUS:

Well it struck me kinda funny, some kind of funny yes indeed
At the end of every hard day people find some reason to believe

Bruce Springsteen - A Reason To Believe

[Xist]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I'd be interested in seeing the numbers behind that. I think you are right but a deeper analysis would be interesting.

Well, there is this:

Paul has openly stated in a couple of interviews that we are currently trending to a retail selling price of $7,300. $7,300 is not the estimated selling price, it is the current estimate of where we are as of today. The selling price is still targeted at $6,800.

Can Elio Achieve $6,800 MSRP | Elio Motors

So, they are still trying to achieve $6,800, but for now, $7,300 looks like the best they can do, and I imagine that few things could help bring down the price, while too many would cause it to go up.

A few curious things I discovered while trying to track down that:


That, my friends, is a car seat strapped into an Elio, which I had read you could not do.

Also, instead of having a windshield washer reservoir, you simply put in a bottle of fluid and screw in a hose. Well, that would have saved me some problems with my Forester, I plan on patching a hole before I sell it.
Top Question Paul is Asked

[NeilBlanchard]

The target weight for the Elio Motors vehicle is 1,250 pounds. So, at the base price (for the 5-speed manual) of $6,800, that is ~$5.44 / lb. At $7,300 it would be $5.84 / lb.

1. Nissan Versa 1.6 S: $12,815 / 2,363 lbs = $5.42 / lb

2. Chevrolet Spark LS: $13,095 / 2,269 lbs = $5.77 / lb

3. Mitsubishi Mirage $13,805 / 1,973 lbs = $6.99 / lb

4. Smart ForTwo Pure: $14,020 / 1,808 lbs = $7.75 / lb

Like most inexpensive cars, I think they are counting on most people opting for the 5-speed automatic - which I think will likely cost at least $700. So, that bumps the Elio up to $7500 so the price per pound is $6 / lb. Or, at $8,000, it would be $6.40 / lb.

The Elio has 3 wheels (25% fewer brakes and suspension components) and 2 seats and 1 door. The chassis is about half the size of a typical car. The windshield is often the most expensive individual part in a car, and the Elio's is almost half the size. Then engine block is a 900cc 3 cylinder, so that means the is 25% fewer parts than most engines.

[Hersbird]

The materials to build the average car cost about $5000. Big, small, medium, it doesn't really matter. Luxury will increase that but even if you did cut 25% of this cost you don't go from a $12000 car to a $7000 car. I would be willing to bet those few $12,000 cars out there are sold at a loss on the back of a more traditional $25,000-35,000 cars as well. A company selling only $7000 cars has to make profit on just those cars. There are no engineers working on high profit SUVs that can spin off a few parts for the cheap seats. No high profit SUVs to cover all the admin, accounting, HR, legacy, etc personnel costs. The good thing you have is you haven't built up a big legacy of costs and maybe the economy is so bad you can get away with $10-$15/hr workers but you will still need to pay these very high "affordable" health care premiums.
I remember when the Dodge Neon was the first US small car to supposedly be profitable. That was back in 1995 and even that car cost more then the Elio then.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

1. Nissan Versa 1.6 S: $12,815 / 2,363 lbs = $5.42 / lb

2. Chevrolet Spark LS: $13,095 / 2,269 lbs = $5.77 / lb

3. Mitsubishi Mirage $13,805 / 1,973 lbs = $6.99 / lb

4. Smart ForTwo Pure: $14,020 / 1,808 lbs = $7.75 / lb

Marketing it towards the customers of a Smart makes more sense than targetting the customers of the Spark, Mirage and Versa. Anyway, instead of approaching to the price per weight, I would rather look at the price per seating and luggage capacity, and then it seems only competitive to the Smart.

[Longsnowsm]

I can't believe I read through this thread to come away feeling frustrated and wondering how Elio even got this far!

I will say if they were building this car/trike I would certainly be interested in owning one. The story started off pretty good. No new technology, reuse existing parts, keep costs down. Sounded like they were positioning themselves really well with a production facility and possibly the ability to stamp these things out at a reasonable cost... Then THE TRAIN LEAVES THE RAILS with this engine thing... I mean what are these clowns thinking?

They should have snagged up the entire production of Jasper engines Geo Metro remans and worked out the kinks with the car. Get something shipping. Move the prototypes along and get it sorted out. Start to make some money, and then if you have the demand start looking at the improvements. Repurpose a motorcycle engine. The Honda NC700X is a 2 cylinder refit from the Honda Fit that would have gotten them probably 100 mpg. I mean there have to be other options to get something existing that wouldn't break the bank and would get a product out the door.

So frankly I am with everyone else in the skeptics corner. I see they are trying to publicly fund this company now. After watching such huge mis-steps out of the gate I cannot see how I would possibly fund/invest money with this management team after watching them lose site of the message of no new tech, repurpose everything, and make something affordable and get it out the door to the people.

I don't see any way they can make that price point of $6800 or $7400 or whatever... If they can keep it below $10k they will have people interested. How much interest? Well frankly I don't know in the US market. When I bought my Insight I thought like most Americans that I needed more car, had to haul people, stuff, blah blah blah... The Insight has been great and I was wrong about most of the stuff that I thought I needed. I can now easily see how I could scale right into an Elio and it would be a fantastic fit. So I would be very interested if they can ever get it out the door. But what a train wreck watching this MESS! I don't know if Americans will ever wake up to how practical a small car like the Insight is for day to day commute and errands or the Elio which is even more "odd". I call it practical, but then again I am ODD! LOL

It is sad we see so many great concepts and ideas and they die before they even get realized. I am starting to think Tesla still being is business is a miracle!

Longsnowsm

[freebeard]

Tesla is in solid shape because of the business practices they employ: Analysis: Tesla may have made over $100 million off the CARB enabled battery swap ZEV credit scheme | Watts Up With That?

This is why the cards were stacked against Tucker and Aptera and countless others. — just one,Tesla, slips through the cracks and (according to Jack Rickard) suddenly the majors are walking zombies.

http://evtv.me/2015/07/weve-gone-plaid/

Oh, there have been any number of electric car startups. But most ill concieved and poorly funded. Tesla has defied all odds and actually brought a car to market. And it has done so so successfully, that it has outsold EVERY luxury car in its price class, and won every award available in the automobile industry. It as at this point accepted as the BEST AUTOMOBILE EVERY BUILT.

And it was done in Silicon Valley. Despite all the angst over dealership issues in various states, by far the majority of Teslas are sold via their online web site. They are individually delivered. Individually serviced. You never SEE a big lot with hundreds of cars and plaid jackets, free coke for the kids or a SINGLE balloon animal. Their “recalls” are done discretely in the night over GSM. They don’t have dealers. They are designed and built using quite the latest available processes. It is not just the car, but every aspect of the purchase and ownership of the car that has been redesigned. I actually predicted this in 1995 in Boardwatch Magazine. A total flattening of distribution networks and the end of geographic dealerships. I actually described specifying colors and fabrics and engine and trim level via website, and having the car delivered to your door a few weeks later. It has come to pass.