Elio Motors, The Next Big Thing?!!...

[ME_Andy]

In my opinion, the only misstep that Elio has made so far is they should have made some "limited edition" prototypes to get things rolling... and charge like double for them. Maybe 100 or so. That would be a good way to get things rolling at the factory and make some cash. Maybe they will auction off the first ~30 prototypes.

People don't understand how hard it is to raise capital, or how much tooling and engineering it takes to make a large quantity of anything. The engineering effort that would go into adapting a motorcycle engine as a temporary Band-Aid solution is way too much effort, IMO.

[stiletto2]

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

The engineering effort that would go into adapting a motorcycle engine as a temporary Band-Aid solution is way too much effort, IMO.

And coming up with a whole new engine isn't/wasn't?
Plus maybe the transmission too?

[ME_Andy]

If you were going to put a lot of effort into manufacturing an engine, would you pick an old design that doesn't match your vehicle well? Or a new design that's matched to the vehicle?

If you haven't seen their blog post about the Geo Metro engine, y'all should.

https://www.eliomotors.com/tech-talk...engine-part-1/

[Xist]

Would you rather:

Finally make your fifth estimated production date, with improvements planned for your next year's model?

Or

Delay things indefinitely, until "everything is perfect."

Perfect is the enemy of good.

[Longsnowsm]

Sorry, but they should have stuck with "off the shelf" availability to get the first vehicle out the door. When you break your own rules to keep the cost factor under control you have now jeopardized the entire companies chances of survival. By developing your own engine parts won't be plentiful, and much less likely to be affordable in the process either.

To me this calls into question the management and making this judgement. Tooling up for the first generation car with "stuff" that is already available really is key for an effort like this for a low cost entry level vehicle. It isn't like they are selling Tesla's here with massive premiums. The margins are going to be thin and they knew that going into this.

Now I seriously have my doubts this company will survive or live to produce the Elio. Which is too bad because I personally really like this and would love to have one. I hope I am wrong, but at this point I don't think I am... You cannot throw away this kind of money in development unless you have a big wallet and time to develop it. So far the company has been wrong about timeline, looks like they have made a bad call on the engine development, looks like they did not anticipate the costs to launch and get the product out the door, and looks like mission creep has made it's way into the mix and they are forgetting the basic premise of the peoples car.

They need to draw a line in the sand, it won't be perfect, it will have lots of room to do more and greater things in the future new models, but lay out the final plans for the first car, control costs, and make sure it is rock solid and exceeds on it's mandate. If it is a good reliable vehicle and has good support you will have customers coming back for the next models. As it stands I don't think any of it is going to happen at this point unless they get a funding miracle and have time over the next few years to iron out all the wrinkles and issues.

[ME_Andy]

"Off the shelf availability" != 50,000 units per year

[Hersbird]

The way it stands now the few people employed are making good money. They continue to make good money as long as the dream holds out. If they go to production they have to put a bunch of money on the line at great risk of losing money. Sure the potential to make more money for lots of people is there but the money for those few working right now won't change much.
I would be scared to buy a newly developed engine by a low budget company that will probably be produced in China. We don't have a Pep Boys anywhere near here. I would buy one with a common, known engine and the ability to fix anything myself if it has a warranty or not.

[stiletto2]

Originally Posted by ME_Andy

If you were going to put a lot of effort into manufacturing an engine, would you pick an old design that doesn't match your vehicle well? Or a new design that's matched to the vehicle?

If you haven't seen their blog post about the Geo Metro engine, y'all should.

https://www.eliomotors.com/tech-talk...engine-part-1/

Pfft! links to the charts don't work. Useless.

It is a simple matter of lowering goals to an easily achievable, reasonable and realistic
level initially, then make improvements. (and sell for more later)

Elio's expectations are obviously not being met because they are ambitious beyond
what can actually be attained in the manner and time frame claimed. Repeatedly...
which shows poor judgement.

I Wonder what the results of a poll of current "investors/those that made reservations"
would say about - Build a lesser grade (but still acceptable performance & economy)
vehicle with currently available components and put the current funds to work now and
then an idealized model later when feasible. (and reasonably be able to charge more
for it. With current "investors" having the option to commit to waiting for the improved
model) - OR - Wait until all of the designs, prototyping and testing for the idealized
model are done before proceeding with ANY production.

The results of that would be interesting... but I don't think Elio would give a ratsass one
way or the other and will do things his own way regardless.

That's all academic any way as IMO the whole thing is going to go POOF when the
whole situation becomes untenable. Call me a cynic, but that is how it has been looking
for a while now in spite of all the so called "breakthroughs" and hype.

Why people who should be more reasonable are still continuing to delude themselves is
almost a bit beyond me... But only almost. I can understand resistance to desperation
and not wanting to be seen as being wrong about something after having committed to
some lofty goal. Too bad, but I think they've set themselves up for disappointment...
Such folly.

[Longsnowsm]

I think it is great to have hope. I think that is why any of us would be following this story and posting here. I think many of us would like to hope for a good outcome and maybe we might get something really cool to mod and hypermile. I can think of so many ways this would be a very fun vehicle to mod and really make it very slick in the air.

I think we tend to be negative or assume the worst because we don't like being let down if we get too excited about the prospect of something fun and maybe even just a little amazing possibly being released into the market. So I get it, I understand why the negativity... I think it tells me your just as hopeful that the Elio lives on to produce the car as I am...

But man is it frustrating to watch! LOL So I will keep watching and following the Elio story in the hope that something good will come out of it. I know it isn't likely. But I will watch and wait regardless.

Just tell me that this thing doesn't make you drool over the prospect of a tail, maybe a matching trailer? A mirror delete, and a force shutdown mod? Maybe a little air dam and grill block action? Put some tails on those front wheel covers? :-D I could see some of you guys with mad mod skills making one of these things so amazingly slick in the air that it would boggle the mind. Frankly that is what I would love to see!

[stiletto2]

Originally Posted by Longsnowsm

I think it is great to have hope. I think that is why any of us would be following this story and posting here. I think many of us would like to hope for a good outcome and maybe we might get something really cool to mod and hypermile. I can think of so many ways this would be a very fun vehicle to mod and really make it very slick in the air.

Parasitic drag from the exposed suspension members could be helped with small stream line coverings like ultralight aviation struts have. The stuff can be cut to length and snaps closed at the trailing edge.

Originally Posted by Longsnowsm

I think we tend to be negative or assume the worst because we don't like being let down if we get too excited about the prospect of something fun and maybe even just a little amazing possibly being released into the market. So I get it, I understand why the negativity... I think it tells me your just as hopeful that the Elio lives on to produce the car as I am...

On balance , the dark dirge is louder than the happy ditty.
Hope? Maybe only a ghost of a thread of hope.

Originally Posted by Longsnowsm

But man is it frustrating to watch! LOL So I will keep watching and following the Elio story in the hope that something good will come out of it. I know it isn't likely. But I will watch and wait regardless.

Me too from time to time; like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

Originally Posted by Longsnowsm

Just tell me that this thing doesn't make you drool over the prospect of a tail, maybe a matching trailer? A mirror delete, and a force shutdown mod? Maybe a little air dam and grill block action? Put some tails on those front wheel covers? :-D I could see some of you guys with mad mod skills making one of these things so amazingly slick in the air that it would boggle the mind. Frankly that is what I would love to see!

Makes me wonder why somebody hasn't already hacked up a Metro and done something like this already. I had one once upon a time and regretted trading it in for a pickup truck. I might have tried cutting it back to 3 wheels and composite skin. (with help)