Engine warm-up FAIL

[Miller88]

Originally Posted by Grim

I read about changing Thermostats a lot here and other boards. Other forums (truck, car) always saying to people who are having overheat issues to put in 180f thermostats in place of the factory thermostats with higher rating not realizing most modern fuel injected cars are designed around a 200-215f operating temp. Sometimes a lower temp thermostat actually will let the coolant move too fast and not shed heat in the radiator making them actually run hotter, common problem when taking the thermostat out completely. I often wonder how many cars are failing to stay in closed loop from this.

On a lot of Jeep sites, people have overheating issues with their Cherokee and the first thing they do is remove the Thermostat. It slows down the process ... but it will ,eventually, overheat again. Or, they don't realize that some engines (the 4.0 Jeep is one) are designed to run at 210. Then, they complain about poor gas mileage ...

Mine runs between 200 and 210 all the time (195* thermostat). It will occasionally get up to 220 or so if it's ~100 out and I have the AC on and am creeping in the traffic ... or really beating on it on a trail on a hot day. I can override the electric fan and kick it on manually - in addition to the mechanical fan.

Originally Posted by ksa8907

I know its apples to oranges, but a lot of cars wont even turn the fans on until 210-215 degrees.

My old car would happily run between 200 and 220

One of the joys of modern engine controls, electric fans is that we can run an engine at these temperatures all the time - even in the summer. The Focus runs right a 180 pretty much all the time, maybe 185 or 190 in the summer. Only time I have noticed it kick the fans on when the AC wasn't on (default) is when the lower grille plugged up in a snowstorm and I got it to 230. If I could find any data for when the fans kicked on I'd be more comfortable going to a warmer temperature.

[Cobb]

Nope, they dont check it in my area.

Originally Posted by dirtydave

Have you personally failed emissions from that Cobb?

[skyking]

I put a 190 stat in my cummins engine, and it holds that perfectly down the road. If the ambient temps are below 30 it takes a half hour of driving to get it there This is with no cooling fan whatsoever. Everything about the engine is cool, the EGTs are also about half what the TDI's are running.
The beetle TDI's will get up to temp in the same conditions in about 10 minutes.

[jamesqf]

For the other extreme, the Insight runs at 195F on fairly level roads. Climbing mountains in the summer can get it up to 220F or more. Going down the same mountain in the winter, it'll drop to 140F or below.

[ksa8907]

If I could find any data for when the fans kicked on I'd be more comfortable going to a warmer temperature.

That information should be in the factory service manual, if you can find one.

[Miller88]

Originally Posted by ksa8907

That information should be in the factory service manual, if you can find one.

Have it. All it has is information for diagnosing if the fans don't come on at all.

[NHB]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Ahhh, $200 electronically controlled 'stats... Now THAT's progress!

You are absolutely right. The possibility to control coolant temperature is a sign of progress. Engines can warm up faster and use different temperatures for different load points. The engine in my daily driver uses fuel consumption optimized coolant temperature of 107 °C (225 °F) under low load. Under high load the temperature will be lowered to 85 °C (185 °F). Electric thermostats make it possible to optimize coolant temperature for engine warm up, fuel economy and power. With traditional thermostats things get compromised.

[NHB]

Originally Posted by Miller88

Carbureted cars, especially with thick oil, don't like to run in the cold. I can imagine the frustration of cranking your car for 3 days straight, pumping the pedal 30,000,000 times - having it finally start running on 1 or 2 cylinders, just to drop it into gear and have it stall. Back at square 1.

Takes a while before SAE30 will start flowing well. Also takes a while before a carbureted engine will actually drive a transmission without stalling.

I usually run 0w-20 in the Focus in the winter. It flows instantly. It has EFI, so it starts instantly; no cranking for an hour while I pump a gas pedal and hope and pray it might start sometime this year. I usually wait until it idles below 2500RPM and I take off.

I've been born and raised close to the arctic circle. Every year the people there drove their cars in temperatures from -30 to -40 °C. Even carburetor cars didn't suffer from those problems. Carburetor will do just fine if it is in a good shape. Battery has to be also suitable for cold winter. I never would use SAE30 oil in cold temperatures. It just doesn't work in cold temperatures. Keep your car in a good condition, use modern synthetic oils and you will survive cold temperatures without any major problems.

Problems will happen if:

• battery has enough capacity only for a nice sunny summer day
• carb is worn out
• choke is not working
• ignition is weak
• oil is not suotable for cold temperatures

[campisi]

Zero idling for warmup here. I give my car a push until it engages the downhill slope of my driveway from the flat of the garage, then back it into the street, put it in 1st, start the car and immediately drive away ... gently. Takes about 7 miles of level driving to get it to operating temp (winter or summer, there's not a whole lot of difference here in the SF Bay Area).
My Subaru has a blue dash light that remains lit until the water temp gets to 120, at that point you're supposed to be able to drive 'normally'. My Tstat opens at 190 and my fans kick on at 212 (all of this data comes from my UG).

[JRMichler]

Another zero idling for warmup. I open the garage door, shift into gear, start the engine, and let up the clutch. I am out of the garage by the time the dash display boots up. I do the same when the temperature is -20 deg F or colder.