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Old 10-29-2010, 08:07 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I see a few of those A2's about. Damn i wish i had one now! Mind you the ones i see are the tdi version so the EV is not that much of a jump! Though it is a jump all the same.
Now that i read some posts questioning the ability of the car i must point out that it is a very capable car. Strong and light. vorsprung and all that. I would not question their safety for a second. relax will you!!

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Old 10-29-2010, 08:12 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moorecomp View Post
Sorry, but your math is not right. $20 to go 375 miles is a little over 5 cents per mile ($.053), not 18.75 cents per mile ($.1875). That would be $70.31 to go 375 miles. The lifetime average for my car is a little over 7 cents per mile.

I will have to defer to the EV gurus as to the electrical cost per mile.
I don't know if I'm an EV guru but I do have an EV so...
115kWh battery capacity
97% efficiency
$0.1201/kwh electricity cost (the national average)
gives:
(115kWh/0.97) * $0.1201 = $14.24 per "fill up"
divided by 375 miles give 3.8 cents per mile in fuel cost and 9.1 cents per mile depreciation + electricity.

But this depreciation assumes that the battery is ready for the recycler after 2500 cycles but that's not the case. This battery will still give it's rated output after 2500 cycles then will gradually lose capacity. It may still give another million miles after it's 2500 cycles. I say "another million" because 375mi range and 2500 cycles is 937,500 miles.
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Old 10-29-2010, 10:57 PM   #33 (permalink)
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The regenerative braking of the electric motor would add a fair bit of braking torque.
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:25 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermiler01 View Post
You don't think the chassis and brakes were designed to include the weight of the passengers and a few hundred pounds of luggage? Are you high?
A2 original weight 855 KG.

Smoke that.
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Old 10-30-2010, 12:50 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
It has also lost the IC engine, transmission and accessories (replaced by electric stuff, if at all), and the fuel tank and accesories - that's going to make a significant weight saving.
But it likely still weighs more than the ICE A2.


But it doesn't seat 4, and it doesn't take along a bit of luggage, does it ?

The main point is batteries are getting lighter and more powerful.
Now all we need is clean energy production.
Uh, it has a 5 speed transmission, and the original engine was 100 kg. The transmission automatically freewheels when you let off the accelerator so P&G is easy, but it is also illegal in many places in the US.

Do some research.

Weight listed with driver is 1290 KG versus the original 855 KG without driver.
1290 is probably over the original gross weight loading (I did not see that listed in the information I read).

Lets see if my math was better than the last post.

435KG more including the driver. Now add 3 passengers and luggage.
I'm about 90 KG.
Maybe 300 more KG for all of that.
Now we are at 1590 KG in a car designed originally at 855 KG + 4 passengers and luggage.

If you all want to pile on the take a shot at Old Mech gang, maybe you should at least do some reading about the original A2, which was quite a design tour de force, but you can bet it was not designed to survive collisions with a load of 745 KG additional in a 855 KG vehicle.

I would like to see some cost figures on the battery since the inventor says it is production ready. He should be able to give us a cost figure.

If you could buy the car, no longer produced, what would you think the cost of a complete, crashworthy, legal to operate in the US version would be?

100k?
200K?

I agree the main point should be the weight, energy capacity, and COST of the battery.

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Old 10-30-2010, 01:04 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
A2 original weight 855 KG.

Smoke that.
Actually 855-1030 Kg depending on engine configuration... So even though it's not certain that they chose the one weighing in at 1030 Kg, it's designed to operate with that weight, so that's a safe figure to use...

With the loss of the ICE and added the battery you have a quoted weight with driver of 1260 Kg... That's 1170 Kg sans 90 Kg driver, making it a whopping 140 Kg heavier than stock...

Yeah granted... Add back the driver and four passengers at 90 Kg and some luggage and you will be in trouble... But unless the 90 Kg guys are really, really desperate to cuddle, there will only be 3 passengers, and possibly a child in the middle rear seat... So 1170 + 4*90 = 1530 Kg... And that's 10 Kg below the specified total weight with full load according to Audi...

So yeah, to keep the weight limits you have to either pack light (10 Kg for four people) or choose passengers or cargo...

Just like with any small car...
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:14 AM   #37 (permalink)
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I wonder what the Leaf would do for range with this battery, if it really is such a quantum leap in technology, to the tune of something that has not been seen in decades.

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Old 10-30-2010, 01:57 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
I wonder what the Leaf would do for range with this battery, if it really is such a quantum leap in technology, to the tune of something that has not been seen in decades.
Not sure but the Tesla Roadster has a ~50kWh battery and 244 mi range. Granted the Roadster probably has better aero but it's less than half the capacity and only 35% less range. I'll bet that there are a lot of people on this list that could sqeeze >350mi out of the Roadster and >500mi out of this A3. The 115kWh battery is definitely overkill, intended more to shatter the perceptions of Joe Sixpack than to be a real production intent vehicle.

I think that we can all agree that the end of fossil fuels isn't going to happen any time soon, but at least there has been a shift to more fuel efficient vehicles.
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:50 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Mechanic View Post
A2 original weight 855 KG.

Smoke that.
The original weight of the car tells you absolutely nothing about what its load capacity is. For example, a 19# bicycle is easily rated to carry 12 times it's own weight.

It sounds ridiculous when you imply it's overloaded when it has people sitting in the seats that it was equiped with.

Last edited by hypermiler01; 10-30-2010 at 04:04 AM..
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:52 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I find it amazing that some here believe the claims made by the 27 year old inventor without any reservations whatsoever.

Recharging the battery in 6 minutes would require an electrical source that would be capable of providing more KW in power in 1 hour than your typical home requires in 1 month. Even 4 hours would require 22 kilowatts per hour or close to 30 horsepower through your home's electrical system.

The details of the battery are conveniently missing, just like the details of the Volts mileage were first mega hyped and the last detail available was the actual charge depleted mileage.

I have looked around for any real data on this battery and it just isn't there. The rationale is its some great secret, but the inventor states it will be cheaper than current designs and is production ready.

Why not provide details unless they do not support the claims made. Great secrets can not be sold without being revealed to the first customer who buys one.

Do you honestly think any customer is just going to buy the sales pitch without detailed testing?

Do you think this battery has been tested through 2500 cycles to confirm an otherwise unsupported claim?

Have you ever seen any chemical battery that looses no efficiency over 2500 full duty cycles?

Go on take some more shots at me because you WANT to be blindly led on by some showmanship, that conveniently lacks enough substance to confirm the sensational nature of the presentation?

Having been trying to promote what I believe to be an efficiency enhancing solution to vehicles regardless of their primary energy source, I can assure you those questions had damn well better be answered before you will see any real financial support.

It also smacks of a political stunt to imply that Germany has now taken the lead in battery electric vehicle technology.

If (and its a huge if), his invention is capable of doubling the efficiency of a battery as a function of weight and size, then he has a game changer. The Chinese will build it as soon as they get there hands on a single example, and they could care less about any patent rights he might hold, if his technology is even patentable.

When did skepticism of UNSUBSTANTIATED claims become the standard of conduct here, or anywhere else, that needed to be shouted down by anyone.

regards
Mech

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