Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-25-2010, 12:48 PM   #111 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 807 Times in 591 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
It's not; it's a much larger car.
That was my question: how much of the weight increase is due to bloat - that is, being a much larger car - and how much to actual safety features? I'm betting the latter is only a small fraction.

Then there's the whole subject of what we might call anti-safety features, starting with this Safety of cars' keyless entry and ignition systems questioned - latimes.com and running through the whole in-car-entertainment & internet connection spectrum.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 01-25-2010, 12:54 PM   #112 (permalink)
Wannabe greenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 1,098

The Clunker (retired) - '90 Honda Accord EX sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 29.49 mpg (US)

Mountain Goat - '96 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCab
90 day: 18 mpg (US)

Zippy - '10 Kymco Agility 125
90 day: 65.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
That was my question: how much of the weight increase is due to bloat - that is, being a much larger car - and how much to actual safety features? I'm betting the latter is only a small fraction.
Correct. As I mentioned, the '10 Civic has the same interior dimensions as the '90 Accord, but is 50 pounds lighter (or a dead heat if you add the 2.5 cu. ft. of trunk space to make them completely equal.) Heavier doorbeams are offset by weight loss elsewhere in the car, and how much could an airbag possibly weigh?

Yeah, I don't like the keyless starting systems either. I rented a Prius, and my only complaint was the stupid starting procedure. And there's no "ACC" position to speak of, so if you're out of control, I don't know how you'd shut it off without also locking the steering.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 02:18 PM   #113 (permalink)
Pishtaco
 
SentraSE-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,485

Mean Green Toaster Machine - '06 Scion xB
Team Toyota
90 day: 48.92 mpg (US)
Thanks: 56
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Irresponsible people make foolish choices every day, necessitating that Big Brother protect them from themselves. 63% of people killed in auto accidents in the USA in any recent year weren't wearing their seat belts, despite mandatory seat belt laws in every state, and the availability of seat belts in all cars for at least 40 years. Nearly a third of people riding in cars today in the US aren't wearing their seat belts. So plenty of people exercise their choice not to let the bureaucracy dictate what they have to do. And the results show their poor judgment.
__________________
Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg

Last edited by SentraSE-R; 01-25-2010 at 03:32 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:46 PM   #114 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 595
Thanks: 106
Thanked 113 Times in 71 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
Irresponsible people make foolish choices every day, necessitating that Big Brother protect them from themselves. .
necessitating?

ever hear of this guy?

here i thought government's purpose was to manage public assets and resources, not tell us how to live our lives
__________________
2005 Escape 2.3 MT 2WD
2002 Mustang 3.8 AT
2015 Ram 1500 5.7L 4WD
2002 Motobecane 700DS
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 04:37 PM   #115 (permalink)
Pishtaco
 
SentraSE-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,485

Mean Green Toaster Machine - '06 Scion xB
Team Toyota
90 day: 48.92 mpg (US)
Thanks: 56
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Those unbelted fatalities cost you and me $580/year out of our public assets and resources.
__________________
Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 05:03 PM   #116 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 595
Thanks: 106
Thanked 113 Times in 71 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SentraSE-R View Post
Those unbelted fatalities cost you and me $580/year out of our public assets and resources.
that's cool, what does it cost me when someone dies from another choice they make? like when someone goes swimming and drowns, or when someone goes hiking and gets lost, or when someone enjoys a milkshake with every single meal and has a heart attack, or when someone rides around on their bicycle with headphones on and gets hit by a car, or when someone dies for any other reason? i'd imagine every death - including natural causes - cost money to clean up and deal with.

what does this have to do with the fact that i can buy a motorcycle and drive it around on public streets but i can't buy a brand new 1500lb econo car?
__________________
2005 Escape 2.3 MT 2WD
2002 Mustang 3.8 AT
2015 Ram 1500 5.7L 4WD
2002 Motobecane 700DS
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to shovel For This Useful Post:
Frank Lee (01-25-2010)
Old 01-25-2010, 05:08 PM   #117 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 807 Times in 591 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
...the '10 Civic has the same interior dimensions as the '90 Accord, but is 50 pounds lighter (or a dead heat if you add the 2.5 cu. ft. of trunk space to make them completely equal.) Heavier doorbeams are offset by weight loss elsewhere in the car, and how much could an airbag possibly weigh?
So essentially Honda has added the safety features to an Accord, while dropping its Civic line - except for the nameplates, of course. But in order to get me to buy one of their current model year cars, they'd have to go back and re-create something the size of the '90 Civic. (Or in my case, a CRX/Del Sol.) Now if they want to add some of the "don't weigh all that much" safety features that don't also detract from my driving experience, fine.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 05:48 PM   #118 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Russellville, KY
Posts: 540
Thanks: 8
Thanked 33 Times in 27 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
The Yugo in 1986 cost $3,990, which was a pretty revolutionary price at the time. That's $8,165 in 2008 dollars. For pretty darn close to that ($9,990 asking), you can get a Versa or Yaris that will be quieter, more comfortable, faster, safer, more efficient and still have that lack of features you want.
Are you sure of the cost of the Yugo? I don't remember the exact cost, but was thinking the base price was under $3,000. I remember the Yugo and from everything I've heard about their reliability it was pretty poor at any price with most of them only lasting about 50K miles I think.
__________________



  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 10:53 PM   #119 (permalink)
Pishtaco
 
SentraSE-R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,485

Mean Green Toaster Machine - '06 Scion xB
Team Toyota
90 day: 48.92 mpg (US)
Thanks: 56
Thanked 285 Times in 181 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shovel View Post
that's cool, what does it cost me when someone dies from another choice they make? like when someone goes swimming and drowns, or when someone goes hiking and gets lost, or when someone enjoys a milkshake with every single meal and has a heart attack, or when someone rides around on their bicycle with headphones on and gets hit by a car, or when someone dies for any other reason? i'd imagine every death - including natural causes - cost money to clean up and deal with.

what does this have to do with the fact that i can buy a motorcycle and drive it around on public streets but i can't buy a brand new 1500lb econo car?
None of the other behaviors you mentioned are illegal and dumb, like riding without a seatbelt.

You can buy a brand new 1653 lb. econocar, the Smart for Two.
__________________
Darrell

Boycotting Exxon since 1989, BP since 2010
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
Mean Green Toaster Machine
49.5 mpg avg over 53,000 miles. 176% of '08 EPA
Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 11:24 PM   #120 (permalink)
Wannabe greenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 1,098

The Clunker (retired) - '90 Honda Accord EX sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 29.49 mpg (US)

Mountain Goat - '96 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCab
90 day: 18 mpg (US)

Zippy - '10 Kymco Agility 125
90 day: 65.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
So essentially Honda has added the safety features to an Accord, while dropping its Civic line - except for the nameplates, of course. But in order to get me to buy one of their current model year cars, they'd have to go back and re-create something the size of the '90 Civic. (Or in my case, a CRX/Del Sol.) Now if they want to add some of the "don't weigh all that much" safety features that don't also detract from my driving experience, fine.
The Fit is probably closer in interior volume to the older Civic, though with a not-too-efficient shape. As mentioned above, the closest in size is probably the Smart. It's 100 pounds lighter than the CRX HF, and does 0-60 in about the same amount of time. (And if you see its crash test videos, you can imagine just what would happen to the driver if that car was an old '85 CRX.)

The base ForTwo MSRP is $11,990, which is $6,069 in 1985 dollars. The CRX MSRP was about $6,500.

__________________

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electric car conversion: Project ForkenSwift MetroMPG Fossil Fuel Free 1041 07-28-2014 09:19 AM
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 55 08-20-2012 11:34 PM
$500 and 30mpg car? possible? olderthanme EcoModding Central 6 07-15-2008 09:37 PM
Great ... another new guy ( thats me ) - ecomodding related car shows? dBSteve The Lounge 19 04-27-2008 11:15 PM
Video: great smart car review ... by people who appreciate compact transportation MetroMPG General Efficiency Discussion 8 01-29-2008 11:38 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com