Ever stopped at a dealer to confim how great your current car is?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Clev

It's not; it's a much larger car.

That was my question: how much of the weight increase is due to bloat - that is, being a much larger car - and how much to actual safety features? I'm betting the latter is only a small fraction.

Then there's the whole subject of what we might call anti-safety features, starting with this Safety of cars' keyless entry and ignition systems questioned - latimes.com and running through the whole in-car-entertainment & internet connection spectrum.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

That was my question: how much of the weight increase is due to bloat - that is, being a much larger car - and how much to actual safety features? I'm betting the latter is only a small fraction.

Correct. As I mentioned, the '10 Civic has the same interior dimensions as the '90 Accord, but is 50 pounds lighter (or a dead heat if you add the 2.5 cu. ft. of trunk space to make them completely equal.) Heavier doorbeams are offset by weight loss elsewhere in the car, and how much could an airbag possibly weigh?

Yeah, I don't like the keyless starting systems either. I rented a Prius, and my only complaint was the stupid starting procedure. And there's no "ACC" position to speak of, so if you're out of control, I don't know how you'd shut it off without also locking the steering.

[SentraSE-R]

Irresponsible people make foolish choices every day, necessitating that Big Brother protect them from themselves. 63% of people killed in auto accidents in the USA in any recent year weren't wearing their seat belts, despite mandatory seat belt laws in every state, and the availability of seat belts in all cars for at least 40 years. Nearly a third of people riding in cars today in the US aren't wearing their seat belts. So plenty of people exercise their choice not to let the bureaucracy dictate what they have to do. And the results show their poor judgment.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Irresponsible people make foolish choices every day, necessitating that Big Brother protect them from themselves. .

necessitating?

ever hear of this guy?

here i thought government's purpose was to manage public assets and resources, not tell us how to live our lives

[SentraSE-R]

Those unbelted fatalities cost you and me $580/year out of our public assets and resources.

[shovel]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Those unbelted fatalities cost you and me $580/year out of our public assets and resources.

that's cool, what does it cost me when someone dies from another choice they make? like when someone goes swimming and drowns, or when someone goes hiking and gets lost, or when someone enjoys a milkshake with every single meal and has a heart attack, or when someone rides around on their bicycle with headphones on and gets hit by a car, or when someone dies for any other reason? i'd imagine every death - including natural causes - cost money to clean up and deal with.

what does this have to do with the fact that i can buy a motorcycle and drive it around on public streets but i can't buy a brand new 1500lb econo car?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Clev

...the '10 Civic has the same interior dimensions as the '90 Accord, but is 50 pounds lighter (or a dead heat if you add the 2.5 cu. ft. of trunk space to make them completely equal.) Heavier doorbeams are offset by weight loss elsewhere in the car, and how much could an airbag possibly weigh?

So essentially Honda has added the safety features to an Accord, while dropping its Civic line - except for the nameplates, of course. But in order to get me to buy one of their current model year cars, they'd have to go back and re-create something the size of the '90 Civic. (Or in my case, a CRX/Del Sol.) Now if they want to add some of the "don't weigh all that much" safety features that don't also detract from my driving experience, fine.

[Ford Man]

Originally Posted by Clev

The Yugo in 1986 cost $3,990, which was a pretty revolutionary price at the time. That's $8,165 in 2008 dollars. For pretty darn close to that ($9,990 asking), you can get a Versa or Yaris that will be quieter, more comfortable, faster, safer, more efficient and still have that lack of features you want.

Are you sure of the cost of the Yugo? I don't remember the exact cost, but was thinking the base price was under $3,000. I remember the Yugo and from everything I've heard about their reliability it was pretty poor at any price with most of them only lasting about 50K miles I think.

[SentraSE-R]

Originally Posted by shovel

that's cool, what does it cost me when someone dies from another choice they make? like when someone goes swimming and drowns, or when someone goes hiking and gets lost, or when someone enjoys a milkshake with every single meal and has a heart attack, or when someone rides around on their bicycle with headphones on and gets hit by a car, or when someone dies for any other reason? i'd imagine every death - including natural causes - cost money to clean up and deal with.

what does this have to do with the fact that i can buy a motorcycle and drive it around on public streets but i can't buy a brand new 1500lb econo car?

None of the other behaviors you mentioned are illegal and dumb, like riding without a seatbelt.

You can buy a brand new 1653 lb. econocar, the Smart for Two.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

So essentially Honda has added the safety features to an Accord, while dropping its Civic line - except for the nameplates, of course. But in order to get me to buy one of their current model year cars, they'd have to go back and re-create something the size of the '90 Civic. (Or in my case, a CRX/Del Sol.) Now if they want to add some of the "don't weigh all that much" safety features that don't also detract from my driving experience, fine.

The Fit is probably closer in interior volume to the older Civic, though with a not-too-efficient shape. As mentioned above, the closest in size is probably the Smart. It's 100 pounds lighter than the CRX HF, and does 0-60 in about the same amount of time. (And if you see its crash test videos, you can imagine just what would happen to the driver if that car was an old '85 CRX.)

The base ForTwo MSRP is $11,990, which is $6,069 in 1985 dollars. The CRX MSRP was about $6,500.