Ever stopped at a dealer to confim how great your current car is?

[The Atomic Ass]

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

Safety isn't that big a deal, and a fancy new car doesn't make you immune from stupidity. But the new stuff does have some advantages to offset the weight and price.

I have had a theory for a while, that the increase of safety devices in cars has taken away the danger, the "rolling ball of metal death" feeling of driving a "proper" car.

By "proper" car, I don't mean a '57 Chevy, although it is a nice looking car. A "proper" car to me has handling as it's highest engineering priority, so as to make crashes as unlikely as possible, given to operator ability.

The lack of a feeling of danger in driving a vehicle today I think is the leading cause to the rising number of accidents on the road. People aren't paying attention to the vehicle until its too late.

BTW, I don't wear seat belts as a rule, and actively removed the airbags from the only vehicle I ever owned with them... I did reinstall them before selling it, though.

[user removed]

My 2002 Honda Insight and my 1994 Civic VX are a good comparison.

Both have 52 k miles, while one is 8 years older than the other,

The VX has needed no replacements other than normal maintenance. Even the fan belts are original. Tires were replaced due to dry rot and timing belt was replaced as a precautionary measure.

The Insight is at the dealership now. In the last 15 months it has had the 02 sensor replaced, at my cost. The fuel vapor system kicked on the check engine light, they wanted to replace the filler neck and other parts for over $600. I replaced the gas cap and so far its working OK but it does not screw in easily.

The catalytic converter started rattling in it's housing and they replaced it under warranty ($2200). Now the hybrid battery and BCM are bad and that is also under warranty, probably another $2500 + under warranty.

If the CVT goes out that's over $5000 and you can't get the parts to repair the transmission.

The Insight averages 65 MPG and the VX averages 55 MPG.

Spent $10k for the Insight and I bought the VX back from my buddy for $3500, after I spent more than that rebuilding it and sold it to him, then he sold it back to me when he had back problems and could not drive a stick anymore.

If I had to choose one or the other and I knew I had to drive it another 150k miles, I would take the VX without hesitation.

At 200k miles I would bet the VX would be worth more, even if it was 8 years from now, and it was legally an antique in Virginia.

I had a 2001 Toyota Echo with 78 k miles. If I had to own a newer car, it would probably be something like the Echo, with no options whatsoever, maybe AC.

At $500 + to fix a power window, I can crank them up. $2000 for power steering, I can live with a manual. So much junk on cars today I don't need or care about. The problem with all that junk is it costs a fortune to fix when it goes bad. Cable operated window regulators, YUK, you can keep them. Drive by wire, well we are seeing what can happen with that system, and it will only get worse when the effects of a decade of corrosion starts to cause all kinds of electrical problems.

Look at how long it has taken Toyota to actually fix the problem, and they made the dang cars. Look at how long it has taken them to figure out what is wrong, if they have actually figured it out.

Who knows? What happens if they do all their FIXES, and the thing takes off again without the driver's foot on the gas. Most of the forums I read the blame was on the idiot drivers. Do you really expect people to act perfectly when something scares the crap out of them.

I would, but the wife might not.

Edit, I almost forgot to mention the VX was totalled in the rear end when it was 2 years old. Hit hard enough to break the frame of the back of the drivers seat.

regards
Mech

[Dave's Civic Duty]

Yeah, I hear you Mech,

That's what I like about my 94 VX as well, crank windows, no power steering. The only frill is the A/C. I do like Honda's standard features of a drivers side fuel tank door latch & hatch/trunk lever. In your earlier postings you commented about rebuilding the car, I'm glad you added the edit, I was curious about that.

With your comments about the Insight, I'm real happy now that I didn't get the used 2000 about 5 years back. I sent a question about purchasing one w/ 64k to Pat Goss from the TV show Motorweek. He said to stay away, because the battery life was not yet really know & if they needed to be replaced it could be the cost of a new engine.

So what kind of warranty do you have on the 2002 Insight. A factory one for an 8 year old car?

Thanks,
Dave

[user removed]

The Insight's in service date was August 2003, 14 months after it was built. That is critical because the warranty begins on the date the car goes in service.

The 8-80 is good until August 2011 or another 28k miles, while the battery and the rest of the hybrid components is warrantied until August 2013.

I'll try to keep the miles down to where they do not go over the limits before the warranty runs out, and probably sell the car before the battery warranty expires.

Maybe by then I will be able to get my hybrid drive in something to replace them. Might be a launch assist setup in the rear wheels of the VX. Might be an Insight conversion.

regards
Mech

[Dave's Civic Duty]

Wow! 8-80, I didn't know that, Thanks. When I was looking at the 2000, by what the Honda used car salesman told me, the warranty had expired. Did Honda improve the warranty by 2002, maybe? I really like how they looked, flat rims & rear fender skirts.

Hybrid your VX? Cool!

I'm going to replace my rear quarters & get rid of the dents & dings. Probably fresh paint too. After repainting the quarters may as well just go for it! I just turned 117K, still a baby!

Dave

[user removed]

Honda extended the warranty on the hybrid components to 10-150.

The 8-80 was for things like the catalytic converter and other "major" emission components, but not 02 sensors.

regards
Mech

[Dave's Civic Duty]

10-150, One of the best in the business!

[Red Lion]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

The lack of a feeling of danger in driving a vehicle today I think is the leading cause to the rising number of accidents on the road. People aren't paying attention to the vehicle until its too late.

I can't cite it, but I recall a situation in New York where the taxis put better stopping brakes on all the cabs in the city but the number of accidents actually went up over time. The drivers admitted they were stopping later, braking harder and taking more risks because they thought that the bigger, better brakes would save them.

[El Duende]

Originally Posted by The Atomic Ass

I have had a theory for a while, that the increase of safety devices in cars has taken away the danger, the "rolling ball of metal death" feeling of driving a "proper" car.

By "proper" car, I don't mean a '57 Chevy, although it is a nice looking car. A "proper" car to me has handling as it's highest engineering priority, so as to make crashes as unlikely as possible, given to operator ability.

The lack of a feeling of danger in driving a vehicle today I think is the leading cause to the rising number of accidents on the road. People aren't paying attention to the vehicle until its too late.

BTW, I don't wear seat belts as a rule, and actively removed the airbags from the only vehicle I ever owned with them... I did reinstall them before selling it, though.

Not trying to stir **** up by saying this, because I understand where you're coming from, but that's extreme. If one of the people you mentioned (those who don't pay attention on the road) slams into you, you're toast. Why would you remove airbags and drive without properly harnessing yourself?! That makes no sense. I hope that no aspiring eco-modder will take that to heart. Those safety features are there to protect you in the event that you can't do so yourself. By taking that out, it leaves you that much more vunerable on the road. And for the record, taking the airbag off won't give you better handling.

[Clev]

Originally Posted by El Duende

Not trying to stir **** up by saying this, because I understand where you're coming from, but that's extreme. If one of the people you mentioned (those who don't pay attention on the road) slams into you, you're toast. Why would you remove airbags and drive without properly harnessing yourself?! That makes no sense. I hope that no aspiring eco-modder will take that to heart. Those safety features are there to protect you in the event that you can't do so yourself. By taking that out, it leaves you that much more vunerable on the road. And for the record, taking the airbag off won't give you better handling.

Driving without seatbelts is an asinine move. One pothole or sideswipe knocks you out of your driving position and innocent drivers or pedestrians will pay.