Ford finally gets it

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

GM limits Bolt sales by manipulating price and not advertising. Now they've got to replace every battery from 2017-2021 model years. On a vehicle that didn't earn them much in the first place, they have to be in the red on this.

I believe, LG will be paying all costs for the battery debacle, including GM's costs to install the improved pack.

[redpoint5]

I thought GM would shoulder some of the cost. There's other costs too like lost sales due to halting production, paying dealers a storage fee during the stop sale, etc. Reputational damage is probably most significant.

Still don't think there's any way the Bolt added to GMs profits (they'd be better off financially to never have pursued it) all things considered, which was my point.

[Isaac Zachary]

It's the reputational damage that's probably the worst.

New car buyers are used to vehicles that are generally reliable and when something pops up they get a quick recall and nothing much else becomes of it.

They are also used to vehicles that last. Even if a new car buyer is only going to keep his or her car for some 3 to 5 years, they rely on that car still having the reputation of lasting because otherwise they won't be able to sell it at a good price.

Nissan, I think, has ruined it's reputation. Their EV cars are known for having batteries that don't last. The eight year warranty helps, but after that most people aren't going to want to deal with such a car.

GM's Bolt fires may have ruined it's reputation as well. It just seems like GM can't pinpoint the problem, and even if only a few cars have actually caught on fire, most people still see it as a problem they don't want to get involved in.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I thought GM would shoulder some of the cost. There's other costs too like lost sales due to halting production, paying dealers a storage fee during the stop sale, etc. Reputational damage is probably most significant.

Still don't think there's any way the Bolt added to GMs profits (they'd be better off financially to never have pursued it) all things considered, which was my point.

The circumstances suck for sure, but, if they'll all go ahead and take the haircut, and do the right thing for the customer, they may keep and win some very loyal customers. Make lemonade!

[aerohead]

The Takata airbag fiasco is still unfolding, and you don't hear it mentioned at all.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

GM's Bolt fires may have ruined it's reputation as well. It just seems like GM can't pinpoint the problem, and even if only a few cars have actually caught on fire, most people still see it as a problem they don't want to get involved in.

The problem is a combination of two LG cell manufacturing defects in the same cell. Specifically a torn anode and folded separator. Both are very rare and safe on their own but combined they can cause a fire. That is why LG is footing the full $1.9 billion bill to replace the battery pack in every Bolt.

GM tried for quite a while to find a way to use software to detect damaged cells before they were a fire risk. If they had been able to do that GM could have selectively recalled a small number of cars instead of every Bolt made.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by aerohead

The Takata airbag fiasco is still unfolding, and you don't hear it mentioned at all.

When is the last time you hear about GM ignition switches that failed when you hang pounds of crap off the key ring? It was national news a few years ago but now has been forgotten.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by JSH

The problem is a combination of two LG cell manufacturing defects in the same cell. Specifically a torn anode and folded separator. Both are very rare and safe on their own but combined they can cause a fire. That is why LG is footing the full $1.9 billion bill to replace the battery pack in every Bolt.

GM tried for quite a while to find a way to use software to detect damaged cells before they were a fire risk. If they had been able to do that GM could have selectively recalled a small number of cars instead of every Bolt made.

It's information like that that will get companies back on track in the realm of public opinion. If the reason for the problem is unknown to the general public then the general public thinks it's unknown to the manufacturer.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

It's information like that that will get companies back on track in the realm of public opinion. If the reason for the problem is unknown to the general public then the general public thinks it's unknown to the manufacturer.

That information is readily available in the press but you can't make people read it. Type "What caused Bolt battery fires" and I get:

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/08...battery-fires/

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38252...vy-bolt-fires/

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-...s-a3566085147/

Even then it will be forgotten in time. Who remembers the 16 million Fords recalled because they could catch on fire due to the cruise control switch?

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news...ve_recall.html

[redpoint5]

It seems there is a fundamental design flaw if safety relies on batteries not containing those 2 flaws. The design should assume those flaws will exist in some amount, and not cause catastrophic fire.