Geo Metro convertible / Kubota diesel engine conversion (driving!) - Page 7 - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

can8v · 11-16-2008, 04:16 AM

Kim,
Super glad to hear the Kubota is project is making progress again. I was wondering if anyone has seen or heard of a RIOT with a diesel engine? The RIOT is an 1100lb. kit car that uses a Bug pan. It boast super lightweight and a very slippery design. With the right diesel it should go well over 100mpg. The drawbacks are no hard top available and the guy who bought the design is now selling it as a complete car. The plus side is that complete car can be had for as little as $10k - $20K.

Something else to consider for other diesel Metro projects would be Volkswagen diesels. Maybe the engine and transmission could be swapped.

Jason

can8v · 11-16-2008, 04:42 AM

Here is something interesting. I wonder how often something like this comes up and what kind of condition it is in.
TDI engine, transm., 1.9 diesel 2001 jetta

kimer6 · 11-16-2008, 11:21 AM

Jason, I have not seen the RIOT. Got any links? As for the VW diesel, I would have certainly considered putting one in my Metro. Price is the only holdup. I have lots of fun vehicles and way too many projects so I use the hit and miss approach, work on one for a while, then jump to another.

As for the diesels, I got the 2 Kubotas for $400, one running, the other was in the middle of having the head removed. I learned a lot about diesels and their injection systems. Yes, the VW TDI design would have been ideal. It is designed to be on the road, not to run a generator or tractor.

The VW engine looks like it will fit but the trans is too long for a Metro. This listed 1.9 engine /trans is $2000. Adapting the engine to a Metro trans is not a problem for me but the overall length might not fit the frame.

I will contine to play with the 3 cylinder Kubota, but will have to resort to modify the governor internals to make it run properly. See Jack's link #57, he has the proper Kubota governor and turbo with inputs to the injection system that came stock on the engine. Of course a new Kubota turbo engine costs $4500.

My generator engine from a trailer mounted lighting system is completely unsuitable for road use as is. Anybody looking at this model Kubota should consider this before going through all the work I did. I WILL MAKE IT WORK...But then again I spent years diddling with governors and controls in the turbine business.

My goal in this diesel conversion was to have ONE economical vehicle that I can run on home brew biodiesel or veggie oil. I started when gas was $4.50 a gallon. It is now $2.15 but for how long? Hey, I'm thinking about making a diesel powered Margarita Mixer
with my other Kubota. That way I can still be happy as the world economy melts down..

MetroMPG · 11-16-2008, 07:12 PM

Thanks for the update kimer6. Glad to read you're forging ahead.

kimer6 · 11-16-2008, 11:20 PM

Today was Metro day at my house. I primed and painted the replacement hood and fenders of my daily driver 92 convertible. While waiting between coats, I changed the oil and filter on the Blue 93 and messed with the Diesel 1990 Metro. Its fuse block is all corroded but the basics work. I took it for a drive with the 2 fuel lines running thru the firewall to a plastic 1 gallon fuel jug on the passenger floor filled with #2 diesel (no bio diesel yet). I got 66 miles on that one gallon. Most of the driving was 35 to 55 mph in low rolling hills and flat areas.

I have the torque limiter control closed down to keep the smoke down. There is still an occasional puff of smoke but not anything like the cloud it left behind on its original test trip.

I have no tachometer yet but will try to make a 3 lobe cam with a set of old Chevy points to make the stock tach work through the old ignition coil. I will bolt this to the front of the engine cam drive cover. How nice of Kubota to leave me a cover plate, 2 bolt holes, and a nice slot drive in the end of the cam (probably for a mechanical tachometer). It would be really nice to have some rpm data to adjust the governor and injection pump.

The good news...it ran fine and gave me 66mpg. The bad news...it is really too gutless to be driving on the freeway as is. I believe I can squeeze more power out of it by installing the centrifugal injection advancer mechanism and more carefully setting the torque (fuel) limiter stop. I keep eyeballing that turbo sitting on my shelf.....

99metro · 11-17-2008, 08:33 AM

35 to 55 mph is not bad. This is where I do all my driving. Gutless? I can't see how it can be worse than what I am already doing. It takes me a mile to get up to 50 mph - hypermiler thing. If that Kubota can beat that, then gutless it ain't (IMHO). If you go out again, any chance of getting a 0-50 time without causing any harm? I'd ask for a 0-60, but sometimes that could be asking a little much!

66mpg. This is all with regular driving? I'd bet I could hypermile it and get 80+...

Thanks Kimer - great great project!

can8v · 11-17-2008, 11:29 AM

Kim,
Here are some links to the RIOT.
This is the original manufacturer of the kit car.
Thunder Ranch Riot
This is the site for the current proprietor.
NathanWratislaw.com

Do you think that $2,000 is a fair price for a used VW 1.9 TDI and if the tranny is unusable for a Metro application, I wonder how much of the $2,000 could be recouped by selling off the tranny? Maybe a couple hundred dollars could be recouped. Would the VW ECM be needed for such an engine swap?

kimer6 · 11-17-2008, 11:41 AM

Will get some aceleration numbers. No more driving until I replace the fuse block. I was very nervous driving the same circuit over and over again thinking I might have a fire down by my feet. I smelled melting plastic after using the turn signal shortly into the drive.

As far as the mileage, there is lots of room for improvement by sorting out the injection and putting in the 3.52 transaxle. I just found out that somebody got 99mpg with the Kubota while testing fuel additive and anti friction compound. This was at 45 mph on a test track.

can8v · 11-17-2008, 11:43 AM

I read that information about getting 99mpg it is quite dated if I recall.

kimer6 · 11-17-2008, 12:16 PM

Do you think that $2,000 is a fair price for a used VW 1.9 TDI and if the tranny is unusable for a Metro application, I wonder how much of the $2,000 could be recouped by selling off the tranny? Maybe a couple hundred dollars could be recouped. Would the VW ECM be needed for such an engine swap?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I wish I knew more about TDI stuff. I am almost 99% sure the TDI is a common rail engine which uses the ecm computer. The other problem is the adapter for the transaxle. You might encounter so many problems with the flywheel not fitting inside the Metro housing, change in starter motor position, etc. The best bet is to always use as many stock components as possible. The transmission and clutch included.

Spend $2000 on an engine and trans with no computer and you will probably have to fork over a bunch more money to buy that RIOT and dump the Metro.

..thanks for the Riot info. Not that many VW pans around any more. Custom frame is mucho $$$$$$$ or a lot of wor if you build it yourself.

I can't recommend spending ANY money without knowing the engine/trans dimensions, weights, location of axles, height under hood, ground clearance of the oil pan, frame rail interference and 50 other things. I did a lot of homework on my diesel project and STILL there were many unexpected problems to deal with. I kept all gas engine components and can return it to stock in a full day in case I give up on the diesel.

Remember, its always easier to buy something than it is to get rid of it.