Geo Metro plug-in parallel hybrid EV - in progress

[Coyote X]

Haven't done a thing to the car in a while. Just got back from a 6,500 mile motorcycle trip

That 4 cyl shaft looks like the perfect setup if I just mount it on the drivers side. I can move the motor to the side up to 6 inches easily to give me more room. Now I just have to hunt around for a 4 cyl shaft and bearing setup to play with

[Coyote X]

If anyone is interested I will have the Metro in a car show in Logan, WV tomorrow. It still isn't perfect but it is good enough to show.

I have had absolutely no luck finding that axle setup anywhere around here. The only 4 cyl car I have found had a straight axle on the passenger side. I guess it is one of the 89-94 4 cyl cars that had that shaft. It might be a Canada thing also. I will keep looking but if I don't find one in the next few weeks I guess I will have to try making something else.

Anyone got one they would sell me

[MetroMPG]

Bummer on that axle. If I spot another dead Swift around here, I'll have a look for you.

I keep running into a guy who used to have one sitting in his yard - I offered to buy it for parts a while back, but he wanted too much for it. The floor was falling out, and it was ready for the junkyard.

[Coyote X]

I think I have a plan for fixing the axle problem. I just have to make a few things and finish remodeling a house first

So the plan is to move the engine over to the passenger side as far as I can move it like we have been talking about already. Then cut an axle and weld on the stub shaft to the end of it. So when it is done it will have the normal end going into the trans then straight out to another cv joint in the middle then to a shortened shaft going out to the wheel. At the middle joint will be the sprocket and a bearing with a bracket attached to the engine/trans to hold it in place. The middle cv joint I am not sure what direction it has to be mounted. If it is mounted the same direction as the one on the trans side I figure that would be the correct way to do it. If I mount it the other way it would give me more room but I think having ends pointing the same direction on a cv shaft would probably make some real bad vibrations but I am not sure. The bearing will be on the trans side of the center joint.

It will be about like the picture I posted earlier but only one bearing instead of two. The main thing I need to build to get this to work is to build an oven. I need an oven that can get to 800-1200 degrees F so I can stress relieve the axle shaft after welding it together. My first thought is to use an old propane grille burner and put it in an insulated metal box. If I have just enough vent holes to keep it burning and a good temperature probe I should be able to get it to temperature and hold it there. I can then let it cool slowly over an hour or 2 and I should be set.

Anyone here ever build their own stress relief oven? Or has anyone ever used one for that matter that could give me some idea of what I am actually doing?

I won't be able to put any real work on this until after geopalooza, more like Sept probably so I have time to look around and figure out what I am doing hopefully. Driving around in a Metro that is crammed full of batteries that don't do anything other than make a motor without a chain on it spin isn't much fun but it does confuse people when I pull the trigger on it

[droptail]

Originally Posted by Blue Bomber Man

So 22 of those puppies would get you to your voltage and also give you 880Ah's for a weight of 73 pounds. Of course this would run you about $1800 total and you would still need the BMS. I don't know the stats for your setup but I would bet that would be 20-40 miles of all electric range at city speeds.

I could run the numbers through a spread sheet for you if you want. I would need to know Cd, Frontal Area, vehicle weight, estimate of rolling resistance of your tires (if you don't know I will just throw a reasonable number there), electric motor efficiency (usually around 90%).

My numbers though will assume no drag from the cars normal engine hookup.

If you want me to run the numbers for the batteries you got I can do that as well.

Blue Bomber Man
Working backwards, could you run that spread sheet to tell me the capacity required for my battery pack using the following criteria?

reasonable accell stop & go: 0 - 35mph in 15s
top speed: 35 - 45mph
range: 15 - 20mi

Cd: 0.450
Frontal Area: 15 sq. ft. (2.5' x 6')
vehicle weight 5000lbs (4250+750)
rolling resistance tires ?-full size truck 265/70/17 AT
electric motor efficiency 90%

Thanks

[Christopher Jordan]

Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan

Today I will make you a great deal! For $4999.99 I can sell you a 50 mph, 48V (four chargers onboard) City-el!

Oh- cannot delete that post, so I replied. City-EL is sold for $1995. on Craigslist and gone. (changed my avatar too).

[Christ]

Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan

Oh- cannot delete that post, so I replied. City-EL is sold for $1995. on Craigslist and gone. (changed my avatar too).

If you were closer, I'd probably have bought it for that price.

[Homepro]

Originally Posted by Christopher Jordan

Oh- cannot delete that post, so I replied. City-EL is sold for $1995. on Craigslist and gone. (changed my avatar too).

Oh, isn't it too much for the City-EL? Just curious, since i've noticed it is cheaper now.

[Christopher Jordan]

Originally Posted by Homepro

Oh, isn't it too much for the City-EL? Just curious, since i've noticed it is cheaper now.

Years later - yes, in my opinion $500. is too much for something that breaks down in a week. My City-EL brought $5000. when I sold it and snapped the serpentine belt to the axle immediately. I was moving when I sold it but the new owner never contacted me. I would have junked it and demanded my money back if I was him!

[Coyote X]

After continuous tinkering with limiting straps on the control arm and super stiff springs and whatnot I decided the axle drive system is just not workable. I had it to where it would stay on the car without jumping off but it would break the master link just about every time I hit a bump just right or for other random reasons. I spent more in master links than I did in gas. I bet the front bearing on that motor is about wore out with the beating it has taken.

So I say that hybrid drive project worked but it sucked something major. Now I started working on a new plan that is by far the most involved project I have ever tried. I am building a kit car Geo Metro so I can get more room to mount stuff and way better aero and less weight.

Here is the rear end all finished and ready for the motor.


I am currently working on the front end and will redo it much lighter than what the car had in it before. I will also keep as much of the car based off a Geo Metro as possible. The wiring and most of the Metro parts will be put in the car mostly stock just lengthened and shortened to fit the mid engine layout. The goal is to have it 100% Geo Metro replacement parts except for the front suspension, struts won't fit under the front end.

Once I get the car driving good under gas power I will be adding a new hybrid system to it. I have several choices of how to mount it now. The car is 12 inches wider hub to hub so I can do just about anything in that much room. I am really thinking of extending the shaft out of the transmission and connecting it up there. If that doesn't work out I could always try something like a spacer between the engine and trans or a few other ideas. It will probably be spring before I put the hybrid system back on the car at the speed I am working on it.

But I have no idea what the best electric drive system is I can get. I really think I need something stronger than the Mars motor I was using. With the extra room in the car I can go much larger if needed. I can also go up in the voltage. My estimate for the car will be at most 2000lbs with a full tank of gas and me in it. So with a 2000lb starting point does anyone have any idea of what kind of drive system to put in it this time? I am thinking it should be over 150 volts to make it actually go better than last time.

My goals are still the same as before. The electric should be able to drive the car without the gas engine. I want the car to be able to go 65mph without the electric drive having problems. And I would love for the electric drive to have enough power to do 0-35 in like 15 seconds. And to be able to maintain 60mph on level ground. With the extra space and a reliable drive connection it should be a much nicer system once it is done.