Got a new UFO*: 2000 Honda Insight 5-speed (ailing IMA hybrid battery pack)

[MetroMPG]

I reset the "Lifetime" fuel economy display today.

New owner, new numbers!

Was:
4.4 L/100 km / 53.5 MPG (US) @ 270,017 km (168k mi.)

Currently:
2.5 L/100 km / 93.0 MPG (US) ... after 88 km

[MetroMPG]

I have a saying for the Firefly: "70 at 70".

Meaning: I can expect to average about 70 mpg (US) while driving with load and aiming for a target / average speed of 70 km/h (~43 mph) indicated, in decent weather conditions. (That's for the modded car, but with the alternator active.)

Well, I took the UFO to Ottawa last night for the monthly EV meeting... seems like "~100 at 70" is the new "70 at 70". Meaning: 100 mpg (US) is fairly easy to sustain on level ground at 70 km/h.

For the round trip I saw ~90 mpg (US) indicated on the as-yet unverified/uncalibrated onboard fuel consumption display. That's driving with load on the open road (back roads), E-on-C and E-off-C to stops & turns, and a small amount of pulse and glide where appropriate in the ex/urban bits. Target speed was 75 km/h (~47 mph) on the back roads when not being followed. (Posted limit = 80 km/h)

I plan to do a speed vs. mpg graph for the car in stock form (minus hybrid functionality) in the not too distant future. It'll be somewhat tricky because... (a) no cruise control; and (b) the car cycles in and out of lean burn regularly to do NOx purging, which will cause the numbers to vary by some amount on otherwise identical runs. We'll see how messy the plot looks...

I'm definitely looking forward to doing some modding though - "100 at 50" (mph) has a nice mathematical ring to it...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

I can expect to average about 70 mpg (US) while driving with load and aiming for a target / average speed of 70 km/h (~43 mph) indicated...

KPH? That's cheating: it should be 70 mpg at 70 MPH :-)

Which you might be able to get, long-term, driving the Insight in your flatter country. I've averaged 71 mpg in mine, but a lot of my driving is done up & down mountains, so cruising at 70 is not a big component of the average.

[MetroMPG]

Not cheating! The big numbers on the Firefly's speedo are KM/H. Have to squint to read your archaic measurements. :P

70 @ 70 is a laudable goal - that's what Mr Robert Smalls is aiming for with his Insight.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Not cheating! The big numbers on the Firefly's speedo are KM/H. Have to squint to read your archaic measurements. :P

Yes, cheating, because the two are using different units. Now if you wanted to try for 100 km/gal at 100 km/hr, that would be sort of fair. Even though you're not using metric units for volume, you're not using them for time either.

Which of course raises an interesting question: if non-metric units are so archaic and all that, and metric are so much easier because they're powers of 10, how come you all stick with 24-hour days made up of 60 minute hours, with 60 seconds in each minute? I don't suppose you can do much about the 365 1/4 day years, though.

[MetroMPG]

Insight's chassis ground strap problem...

I removed, tested (for resistance) cleaned & reinstalled the two chassis-to engine/transmission ground straps yesterday. The mating surfaces at the bolts & terminals were pretty corroded & cruddy. The wiring itself checked out OK.

Also cleaned some corrosion from the negative 12v battery-to-chassis cable, and from the positive 12v terminal & battery cable connector.

These can cause some problems when they start to corrode and resistance increases. Corroded ground straps are apparently a fairly common problem on these cars (at least those that live where corrosion is a part of life). Some Insight owners report they have to change the straps themselves because the wires have corroded to the point of actually breaking.

Insight's redundant 12v starter

With the IMA switch in the OFF position, the car should revert to using its redundant, conventional 12 volt starter instead of the faster, quieter, 144v IMA motor which normally spins up the ICE when you turn the key.

(With IMA in normal working order, the 12v starter is also called into action by the computer when the hybrid battery is either too cold or too warm.)

I have the IMA switch turned "OFF" to protect the worn out pack from further damage, and I was having trouble starting the car via the 12v starter:

• Sometimes when I turned the key there was a mad buzzing sound coming from an unidentified relay under the dash, and no 12v starter action.
• Sometimes with the key held at "start", the 12v starter seemed to engage and disengage randomly as though the key switch was being jiggled.
• Sometimes there was a several second delay before the 12v starter would go.
• Sometimes nothing would happen at all.

A couple of times, I got stuck at a stop with an unresponsive 12v starter. Had to go to IGN off, reach back and flip the IMA switch back "ON" to use the 144v IMA starter to refire the ICE.

But the good news: cleaning up the ground straps seems to have fixed all this. The 12v starter comes to life reliably when the key is turned.

Interestingly, the ICE now seems to run slightly smoother, though I'm doubting my perception. (Might be a case of "I got brand new sneakers and feel like I can run faster!")

[Nevyn]

Nope. I'd say the number of documented cases where cleaner/bigger/additional ground straps help smooth out idle/increase performance/make for less electrical gremlins is large enough to count as reasonable proof that it does have an effect.

My theory is that clean grounds, having a lower resistance, have less voltage drop - so things are getting a little more power, helping them run "more properly," or that because there is less drop, the ECU doesn't 'overvolt' to compensate for the drop, so the current and voltage levels are smoother.

[Christ]

Clean grounds do create less load on the engine, as well as cleaner signals and faster response time from the ecu.

Think of it from the perspective of current: easier to walk in water, or syrup? It takes more energy to walk in some substance that doesn't allow free movement, and it takes more energy to transfer current through a corroded write not making good contact.

This is actually something you might remember me suggesting occasionally as a good thingto check on a new to you car, as it can have an effect on fe. I generally recommend replacement with a cheap eBay battery ground kit.

[MetroMPG]

Got the first (of many to come, I bet) comment that went like this:

Him: "Is that car electric?"

Me: "Nope, but it's a hybrid."

Him: "Oh. Well it sure looks different. Haven't seen one of those before."

Ironically, I've never had anyone ask if my electric car is electric.

But people ask fairly regularly if the Blackfly is.

Moral of the story: people assume small, weird looking cars are electric. Slap on some wheel skirts and a Kammback and presto, you've got an EV!

[Mr. Pancake]

It is electric in that it won't run without electricity. You could at least give them something to think about when they ask.