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Old 03-10-2014, 06:09 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobb View Post
I think its more efficient to use 2 fans at low speed, than 1 at high speed. I doubt the weight of the fan has an effect on mpg and it comes in handy for traffic and AC use.
Well there are two trains of thought on this, there is that one and there is the train of thought that you can put a 16 inch fan on the radiator and get more airflow through the vanes because a 16 inch fan pushes far more air than 2x 12 inch fans ever could.

I'm still wondering about it all actually. The latest idea is to simply pull the air directly from the ground underneath the front bumper with two large fans, and with the use of an enclosed cowling around the radiator it then dumps the hot air into the sealed engine bay, which then vents at two spots on the bonnet near to the windscreen wipers with a slight positive pressure, the area of the windscreen which is responsible for seeing through is sealed with a factory rubber seal already in place, only the left and right edges of the bonnet are open to outside air.

The entire engine bay is sealed off, to provide an area where positive air pressure can be maintained, except for where it is better to vent the air aerodynamically.


Then the idea is to remove the thermostat, reason being is that we need to keep temps low and keeping the thermostat open all times will keep temps lower until such times as it is required to run the fans to keep things under control. The fans are the thermostat now, and the radiator operates at the exact same temperature as the engine at all times.

This way I can do a full front grille block and a belly pan, the radiator then is using both convection assistance and fan forced cooling assistance. The radiators aren't in the path of the airstream and I can close off the entire engine bay except for the top.

The only problem is I'm concerned about the temperatures achieved inside of the engine bay exceeding the limitations of the wiring inside of the engine bay, and various other issues, for example the transmission overheating, alternator overheating, and the manifold, that can be fixed with manifold thermal tape but I'm still concerned about the temperature then heatsinking back into the head of the engine and cooking the oil ontop of the head from excessive exhaust temperatures.

So I'm waiting on some arduino temp sensors to arrive, which I can then attach to various points inside of the engine bay and obtain current data on temperatures, then compare with the mods.

If I ever need additional hot air exhausting I can then create a tight spot for the air at the very rear of the engine bay along the firewall and then create a mouth which drops down to a limit and opens up to force additional cold air in from the front, the gradient of this opening then can be varied depending upon how much cooling is necessary via arduino programming. Effectivley creating a fully automatic temperature control system. We don't get snow here so its worthwhile looking into if I want to make a smooth aerodynamic underbelly.

Thoughts?


Last edited by yoyoyoda; 03-10-2014 at 06:21 AM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:22 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Don't remove the coolant thermostat. Coolant could be circulating all the time and engine would take forever to reach operating temp, esp in cooler temps.

Also the coolant would be circulating much faster than normal and not allow proper heat transfer from the engine to the coolant, the restriction of the fully open thermostat is needed for this.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:25 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mista Bone View Post
Don't remove the coolant thermostat. Coolant could be circulating all the time and engine would take forever to reach operating temp, esp in cooler temps.

Also the coolant would be circulating much faster than normal and not allow proper heat transfer from the engine to the coolant, the restriction of the fully open thermostat is needed for this.
Please re-read my post.

The idea is to remove the thermostat and block off the airflow to the radiator until such times as you need to vent that heat.

So I simply set the arduino to open up a vent at a specific temperature, until that temperature is reached the radiator remains blocked off, once the temp is reached the gap opens up.

In effect replacing the water thermostat with an air thermostat using vanes controlled by solenoids.

This would actually create a very quick rise in temperature as there is no airflow being forced through the radiator when the vanes are closed. So you can, with this system, drive off and very quickly get a warm engine, then once its reached operating temp the air inlet vane opens up a bit to keep things under control.

Then when things get out of control at lights, the vanes open up completely and the fans kick in, as expected.

The only problem with this is that there needs to be clearance with the road, or at least rollers on the vane at 4 points so it doesn't get damaged going up slight inclines or into driveways.

Last edited by yoyoyoda; 03-10-2014 at 06:33 AM..
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:15 AM   #34 (permalink)
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I went out into the garage on Saturday. I took the bumper apart and went to make the upper grill block. Because of the way I am going to mount the upper, I will need to stiffen the flashing or go with a different material. I didn't get anything done and put the bumper back on since I ran out of time. I didn't want to half-a** something.

The bottom mount is a little floppy; I will need to add another mount. I still need to paint it. I am on spring break this week (still working...) so maybe I will get a minute one night this week to wrench.
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:27 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoyoyoda View Post
This would actually create a very quick rise in temperature as there is no airflow being forced through the radiator when the vanes are closed. So you can, with this system, drive off and very quickly get a warm engine
It would still take longer to warm up if you remove the coolant thermostat because you have to warm up a larger volume of circulating coolant rather than a small volume of non-circulating.

(PS: please be careful about threadjacking! If you have a great idea for a mod, start a new thread.)
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Old 03-10-2014, 08:28 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarguy01 View Post
I didn't get anything done and put the bumper back on since I ran out of time.
I know what you mean. I find when planning mods, I spend the majority of my time standing there just looking & thinking.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:11 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by digital rules View Post
Is too hot about the same for most cars? The Scangauge shows max temperature @186 on my car. Just added an upper grill block today, but not sure what temp to look out for before removing the block?

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I would say 205-210* is not too hot. I know some people on here go higher than that.

You can always add some water wetter to help cool it with the grill block installed. You can also cut a hole in the grill block if it starts getting too hot.
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Old 03-10-2014, 09:16 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
I know what you mean. I find when planning mods, I spend the majority of my time standing there just looking & thinking.
It went something like this: Try to make cardboard template with bumper on car. Removed bumper and then grill to make template. Stab finger with screw driver, bleed a little. Make template. Hear daughters fighting inside and crying since the older one wanted to make blush out of blue food coloring. Younger one put it on her cheeks and lips and then it wouldn't come off. She started crying. I hastily put the bumper back on then went inside to seperate the girls. Finally put band aid on.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:59 PM   #39 (permalink)
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This does not sound like a case of "You had to be there!"
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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The newer cars use a 2 stage thermostat that circulates the coolant around the head, then block before it goes into the radiator. Most newer cooling systems are designed for the tstat and it aids in flow. You can usually get a cooler one or drill some holes in it to make it weaker so to speak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
It would still take longer to warm up if you remove the coolant thermostat because you have to warm up a larger volume of circulating coolant rather than a small volume of non-circulating.

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