Help me brainstorm the perfect truck

[mikeyjd]

thanks to everyone for their input. i think im getting a much better picture of what i want and what is realistic. i will try to make an update post when i make some final decisions. if anyone wants to add anything else feel free to do so :-)

[JRMichler]

I have lived in snow country for almost my entire life, and have never owned a 4WD vehicle. That said, I specified the locking rear end in my present truck, plus carry a set of tire chains in the winter.

In 2012, I drove 10,157.6 miles and burned 303.3 gallons of E10, and averaged 33.5 MPG. In warmer climate, I would have averaged much closer to my summer average of 37.1 MPG.

A 2WD drive truck with chains will go pretty much anywhere that a 4WD without chains will go. The 2WD truck is several HUNDRED pounds lighter than a 4WD truck. The entire additional weight of the 4WD system is on the front axle. With all that extra weight on the front axle, the rear wheels cannot do much in slippery conditions.

Result: A 4WD truck needs the 4WD, while a 2WD truck does not.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by JRMichler

The 2WD truck is several HUNDRED pounds lighter than a 4WD truck. The entire additional weight of the 4WD system is on the front axle. With all that extra weight on the front axle, the rear wheels cannot do much in slippery conditions.

Result: A 4WD truck needs the 4WD, while a 2WD truck does not.

Yes I have found that going 4wd adds at least 300lb minimum on any kind of truck. It can be as much as 500 to 600 pounds on the full size ones.

I have found that for my 6,000lb surburban 100lb makes a difference of 0.1mpg on paper and in the real world as little as 400 to 500lb can knock off 1 full MPG.

[bestclimb]

Originally Posted by slowmover

4WD just gets you stuck farther away from help. And consider that several generations of American men somehow built this country without this severe penalty.

.

I fell for this line of thought before the 2wd rig I have is less than useless for half the year, the other half it is very limited. A 2wd truck works for you and that's great for most people though if they are going to use it off road 2wd is a severe penalty.

If you are going off road bring some recovery gear, jack shovel, hand winch and a snatch strap at least. With 2wd you get stuck in a spot that a 4wd will just walk through. Getting stuck has less to do with the vehicle and more to do with the driver misreading the vehicle's capabilities.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Anything previous to '95 would be better if you would perform a Diesel swap, in order to overcome the OBD-2 mandate if you went with an all-mechanical engine.

Originally Posted by elhigh

If you aren't mudding or going after serious slick rock trails, you might not need to 4x4 capability. A well-sorted 4x2 can get you very far afield. A couple of extra inches of lift, a couple of extra inches of tire and a locking diff or a good limited-slip diff can work wonders. Look at all those VW sandrails and rock buggies that get so far out in the wild, they do okay with only two wheels driving.

I like some 2WD off-road rigs, such as the pre-runners, but we might remember some of those vehicles involve different engineering efforts to get the weight balance closer to the rear axle, which is usually the drive axle. Often I still daydream about converting a random compact truck to mid-engine with a Subaru boxer under the bed

[jamesqf]

I second the idea of an older Toyota pickup, say from mid-80s (when they went from carb to EFI) until they started bulking up sometime in the mid to late '90s. Mine's an 88, 4 cyl, 4WD. Gets about 27 mpg, driven on lots of really rough dirt, up & down mountains, and with loads. It'll also tow a good-sized load of firewood logs in a trailer, with the bed full too. Though I admit, with that load it does drop a bit below freeway speeds on a 5% or greater grade.

As to whether 4WD is useful, I find it so, mostly on steep & washboarded dirt, where 2WD starts spinning the wheels.

PS: Cost is fairly reasonable. I paid $2800 for mine about 4 years ago.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

As to whether 4WD is useful, I find it so, mostly on steep & washboarded dirt, where 2WD starts spinning the wheels.

In many situations, either some knobby tyres or a differential lock could deal with. Other folks often work around the e-brake to get individual secondary levers for each rear wheel, which ends up acting nearly the same way as a limited-slip differential.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by aardvarcus

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but…
Depending on what it is exactly that you need to tow, haul, and engage 4wd for, you may be better served with a rough and tough truck with less than stellar mpg and then have a car for those other uses. My first truck I purchased wasn’t up to the task of what I needed it for, and I ended up pouring money into it just to keep it fixed and going. My second truck is up to the task, but it gets very poor mpg. My car however gets halfway decent mpg. My driving is approximately 80% car 20% truck, and with the car at 35 MPG and the truck at 12 MPG, that is the same as if I bought a 25 MPG truck and drove it everywhere. Carrying this forward, if I hit my goal of the car at 40 mpg the truck at 15 mpg and 90%/10% usage, this would be the same as a 34+ mpg truck driven everywhere.
Not trying to dissuade you from getting a truck with good mpg, but I encourage you to first and foremost get a truck that can do/tow/haul/pull what you need it to, and then focus on the mpg and improving it. Otherwise you will spend your time and money fixing instead of eco-modding.


Edit:
Ok, to stop being such a buzz kill, here is my dream MPG/utility truck. Get an old smaller 4wd Toyota pickup (think Hilux/pickup not Tacoma) with the good fully boxed frame. Swap the rear axle out for a fully floating one (GM 14 bolt, some 93+ FJ80s, etc). Put manual hubs on the front if it doesn’t have them. Swap in an overdrive manual transmission if it doesn’t have one (NV4500). Swap in a smaller diesel engine (Cummins 4BT, Isuzu 3.9L, Cummins B3.3, etcetera) with a properly tuned turbo to provide acceptable power and good economy.
If you have time, tools, scrapyard access, luck, and know how you could probably pull this off within your budget.

I researched the Hilux chasis and it seems pretty ideal. i actually found a decent one pretty close to home and im thinking od going for your suggestion. How much of a difference would the axle swap make and how hard is the 3.9bt swap with an 88sr5 with a 3.0 currently in it. any further thoughts or suggestions from anyone regarding this idea are much appreciated.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by mikeyjd

How much of a difference would the axle swap make and how hard is the 3.9bt swap with an 88sr5 with a 3.0 currently in it.

The axle swap is more focused on dependability and resistence to the heavier weight of a 4BT. A 4BT swap is not so much harder than a small-block Chevy swap, unless for the weight. I could suggest you to get some lighter engine, such as the Kubota V2203-DI, which has been successful in many light truck Diesel swaps.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

The axle swap is more focused on dependability and resistence to the heavier weight of a 4BT. A 4BT swap is not so much harder than a small-block Chevy swap, unless for the weight. I could suggest you to get some lighter engine, such as the Kubota V2203-DI, which has been successful in many light truck Diesel swaps.

any drawbacks to the kubota? it looks like i'm looking at around 3-4k to do the 4bt swap and would be into a kubota for about half that. wondering what a side by side comparison looks like from your guys' point of view.