Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModder Blog Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-11-2010, 12:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
Dartmouth 2010
 
SVOboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hanover, NH
Posts: 6,427

Vegan Powa! - '91 Honda CRX DX
Team Honda
90 day: 66.52 mpg (US)
Thanks: 92
Thanked 113 Times in 82 Posts
Send a message via AIM to SVOboy Send a message via MSN to SVOboy Send a message via Yahoo to SVOboy
High Speed Rail in the US: Why are we so bad at this?

It was just the other day when I was regaling a few friends with an account of the time that California’s governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, almost walked right over me while I was taking a photo. I was alerted that Gov. Schwarzenegger had just visited Japan to check out the shinkansen (high speed rail) system we [...]Related posts:
  1. High Speed Trains Finally Coming to California (and not a Moment Too Soon)
  2. Honda Uses F1 Engineers to Race Towards High Fuel Economy
  3. Japan’s Shinkansen to Get Even Faster

More...

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-11-2010, 02:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,011

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 70
Thanked 178 Times in 95 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
I'd personally love a high speed rail train. I enjoy flying (but not airports) Yet there is something that's always appealing to me with a train. What I don't get is why a plane ticket for 1000 miles is 30 bucks and a train ticket for 1000 miles is 300 bucks.

Have you read the history of Amtrak?

It's the first thing that came to mine to answer your question.
I think it also answers mine of the price difference between flying/train riding long distances.

I think the real question should be how economically viable a venture like this would be. Remember Concorde?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 02:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
SVOboy -

I think it has been US public policy to favor aviation over railroads since the end of WWII, partly for defense reasons. A healthy aviation industry can make world-class fighter jets. The Boeing 747 came from a military cargo plane design. It was redesigned as a passenger jet, and the rest is history.

Here's one (biased?) opinion on the manner :

U.S. Transportation Subsidies
Quote:
Much is made of the $30 billion spent on Amtrak over the last 30 years, but in that same period the federal government spent $1.89 TRILLION on air and highway modes, according to the New York Times and Washington Post.

Since 1946, the federal government has poured billions of dollars into airport development. In 1992, Prof. Stephen Paul Dempsey of the University of Denver estimated that the current replacement value of the U.S. commercial airport system-virtually all of it developed with federal grants and tax-free municipal bonds-at $1 trillion.
...
U.S. has a Third-World rail transportation system
According to a study by the International Railway Journal, the United States ranks between Bolivia and Turkey in mainline railroad spending per capita at $1.64. The average is $21.85, with a high of $228.29 for Switzerland and a low of $.29 for the Philippines.

Between 1971 and 1994, capital spending for Amtrak has never exceeded $220 million in any year...about the cost of a mile or two of urban freeway. On that, Amtrak is supposed to make the investments to become profitable. -Source: The Amtrak Story, by Frank Wilner

Years ago, transit and intercity railroads were privately operated for-profit enterprises. This changed when all levels of government began subsidizing highway and airport construction, which ultimately led to the demise of all privately run service. The irony is that the government has had to step in to preserve what was left of these services.
CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 03:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
Polymorphic Modder
 
SoobieOut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 307

2006 DaCivic Hybrid - '06 Honda Civic Hybrid
90 day: 45.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 188
Thanked 38 Times in 23 Posts
Here's the REAL high speed train that would make the airlines nervous:

620 MPH Train: China developing vacuum maglev train : Product Reviews Net

Shame the Chinese are doing this first. Maybe the USA could get into a train speed race with China?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 03:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,018 Times in 1,302 Posts
Sounds like Evacuated Tube Transportation Technology.

http://www.et3.com/

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 05:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,634

GasDwarf - '13 Volkswagen up! EcoFuel CNG
Thanks: 173
Thanked 611 Times in 486 Posts
These high speed trains cost a fortune to build and run, and can only stop at relatively few places if you want to make good use of their speed.
Hence they are only really useful to transport people between large communities, where a huge need exists to travel between these.

Here in Belgium, they're a very deep, government subsidized money pit.

Aviation is largely exempt from taxes (well, at least they are here) so the competition just ain't fair.
__________________
GasDwarf's fuel consumption :
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 07:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
Wiki Mod
 
Weather Spotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Midland MI, USA
Posts: 2,042

Max - '14 Ford C-Max SEL
Thanks: 228
Thanked 304 Times in 210 Posts
Aviation is way more flexible than rail. In small countries that are very developed (think Japan) rail is a fine means to move lots of people from one point to another. But in a large country like the USA planes are better because they can change routes as needed based on the number of travelers.

Fixed options like trains (or even buses) can not handle the diverse needs of most Americans.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 07:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
euromodder -

Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
These high speed trains cost a fortune to build and run, and can only stop at relatively few places if you want to make good use of their speed.
Hence they are only really useful to transport people between large communities, where a huge need exists to travel between these.

Here in Belgium, they're a very deep, government subsidized money pit.

Aviation is largely exempt from taxes (well, at least they are here) so the competition just ain't fair.
Yeah, when we were in Brussels, we took the TGV (or Thalys?!?!) to Paris :

The high speed train in Belgium

It was a wonderful trip because it was so much less stressful than a plane or a car.

Ha ha, I guess you have to pick your money pit.

CarloSW2
__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 07:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
Wannabe greenie
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Yorba Linda, CA
Posts: 1,098

The Clunker (retired) - '90 Honda Accord EX sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 29.49 mpg (US)

Mountain Goat - '96 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 SuperCab
90 day: 18 mpg (US)

Zippy - '10 Kymco Agility 125
90 day: 65.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 53 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by euromodder View Post
These high speed trains cost a fortune to build and run, and can only stop at relatively few places if you want to make good use of their speed.
Hence they are only really useful to transport people between large communities, where a huge need exists to travel between these.
Which is why it's a shame that California keeps dragging their feet on it. It's a long state with a few very highly populated areas separated by many miles of not-so-populated areas. These areas are connected by freeways that see a continuous stream of cars in both directions 24x7. Even a limited train (say, San Diego-Riverside-Pasadena-Visalia-Bakersfield-Fresno, with a split to Sacramento and a BART linkup in Fremont, would serve a massive number of people with as few as eight stops (none closer than 20 miles, and most 80 miles apart), and reduce the amount of repaving that must be done almost continuously on I-5 and Highway 99.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-11-2010, 08:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
Pokémoderator
 
cfg83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,864

1999 Saturn SW2 - '99 Saturn SW2 Wagon
Team Saturn
90 day: 40.49 mpg (US)
Thanks: 439
Thanked 527 Times in 354 Posts
Clev -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clev View Post
Which is why it's a shame that California keeps dragging their feet on it. It's a long state with a few very highly populated areas separated by many miles of not-so-populated areas. These areas are connected by freeways that see a continuous stream of cars in both directions 24x7. Even a limited train (say, San Diego-Riverside-Pasadena-Visalia-Bakersfield-Fresno, with a split to Sacramento and a BART linkup in Fremont, would serve a massive number of people with as few as eight stops (none closer than 20 miles, and most 80 miles apart), and reduce the amount of repaving that must be done almost continuously on I-5 and Highway 99.
Yeah, that's what this table would imply :

U.S. Transportation Subsidies
Code:
U.S. Department of Transportation Funding, 2002:

$ 32,300,000,000     54%    Highways
$ 14,000,000,000     23%    Aviation/ airports
$  5,000,000,000            Mass transit
$  4,000,000,000            Maritime
$    521,000,000     -1%    Amtrak
$60,000,000,000             TOTAL USDOT BUDGET
CarloSW2

__________________

What's your EPA MPG? Go Here and find out!
American Solar Energy Society
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High speed motor wanted henrikga Motorcycles / Scooters 3 10-11-2009 07:19 AM
Re-Institute National 55mph? Bror Jace General Efficiency Discussion 100 07-29-2008 05:04 AM
Field Weakening Experiment for Speed Increase TomEV Fossil Fuel Free 12 04-10-2008 03:53 PM
Series Motor - Speed vs Torque TomEV Fossil Fuel Free 3 03-02-2008 12:27 PM
Basic EcoDriving Techniques and Instrumentation SVOboy Instrumentation 2 11-17-2007 11:38 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com