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Old 08-27-2010, 07:28 PM   #91 (permalink)
Cd
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Epic indeed !
Love your attention to detail.

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Old 08-28-2010, 09:34 AM   #92 (permalink)
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Vortex Generators?

Do you think vortex generators in this spot would help keep the air attached longer?

The angle on the under body smoothing panels is 6 leading to this spot, and the exit angle is set to 12.5 or so.

Since the exit angle is so abrupt, would vortex generators help with attached air flow?



Jim.
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Old 08-28-2010, 03:38 PM   #93 (permalink)
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VGs

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler View Post
Do you think vortex generators in this spot would help keep the air attached longer?

The angle on the under body smoothing panels is 6 leading to this spot, and the exit angle is set to 12.5 or so.

Since the exit angle is so abrupt, would vortex generators help with attached air flow?

Jim.
Jim,I'm gonna guess and say 'probably not'.The reason being that unlike the side and top flow,there is no free-stream below the ground to feed kinetic energy into the boundary layer of the diffuser to delay separation.There's no 'up-wash',only side air spilling into the void which will impart some energy,how much,who's to say? There's so far no investigation of such a thing.
Here's the caveat.I would suspect that the faster more energetic side flow will want to twist into an attached vortice as it collides with the moribund underbody flow.Turbulators could help to dice up this flow,give you a uniform separation point and produce small eddies rather than larger votices,maybe for an overall drag reduction.Just a guess.
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Old 08-29-2010, 04:58 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Why not just have a hinged panel that hangs down at the correct angle ?
When you go up a steep driveway, the panel would fold flush with the bottom of the tail.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:19 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Why not just have a hinged panel that hangs down at the correct angle ?
When you go up a steep driveway, the panel would fold flush with the bottom of the tail.
Hi Cd,

Actually, that was an idea that popped up during the build, but...

Instead of a skid plate, I was thinking more along the lines of using a small rubber roller wheel at the extreme end of the dropped portion. When going up/down a steep driveway apron, the wheel would be first object to contact and simply raise the tail underside as necessary.

I was hesitant to try it at this point in the construction, since I'm not sure how much longer the nice weather is going to hold out, and there's still some fundamental stuff to finish like the total length of the shape, and then lights/reflectors and wiring, and rough fiberglass work on the outside skin.

That may be something I can try next year when the weather again warms up enough to ride the motorcycle to work.

Jim.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:23 PM   #96 (permalink)
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Bright LED's

I'd really like to use LED lights all-around but have not worked with those before. I looked at superbrightleds.com initially, but now it's getting close to the time to start ordering those components.

Anyone have experience with working with these LED's and how much current they are designed to handle?

Has anyone messed with current levels to the point of matching the brightness of normal incandescent bulbs in various sized arrays?

Jim.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:27 PM   #97 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how much longer the nice weather is going to hold out, and there's still some fundamental stuff to finish like the total length of the shape, and then lights/reflectors and wiring, and rough fiberglass work on the outside skin.

That may be something I can try next year when the weather again warms up enough to ride the motorcycle to work.

Jim.
I vote for finishing this up and live with it for a year. Hopefully, any future adjustments will be minor. I love how this follows the stock lines and the look of the car. I can't wait to see this under a coat of paint.
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The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:07 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I used Superbright LED multidirectional bulbs for my brake lights to replace the stock bulbs when I did the VW 5 brake light mod. They seem very similar to stock brightness. I didn't change the turn signal bulbs because I didn't want to mess with adding resistors to keep the car from mistaking them for a burnt out bulb or blinking too fast. Do you plan to reuse the stock Insight taillight housings? If you are adding side marker housings it shouldn't be a problem to use LED. I have LED "marker lights" in my grill as Daytime Running Lights.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.

Last edited by COcyclist; 08-31-2010 at 09:49 AM..
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:10 PM   #99 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COcyclist View Post
.... I didn't change the turn signal bulbs because I didn't want to mess with adding resistors to keep the car from mistaking them for a burnt out bulb or blinking too fast. Do you plan to reuse the stock Insight taillight housings?....
I'm still trying to make up my mind just what the back of the tail extension should look like....

Just my opinion, but I absolutely love what the Aptera designers did with the latest version of the tail lights, and the overall shape of the rear of the bodywork. That slenderness comes from the dimensions of a motorcycle size license plate however, since the Aptera is classified as a Type II motorcycle and can use a smaller plate.

The Insight extension bodywork will not be able to pull off such a slender design because of the larger plate size, even though the width of the car may be similar to the Aptera.

I also find something very appealing to the rear-end shape of the 2006 Honda Civic EX four seater. I like the multi-convex/concave shapes across the trunk-lid/tail lights, and the sharp edges along the sides of the rear quarter panels.

The stock Insight tail lights have too much of a soft radius for my liking, and lacks the sharp edge of a proper Kammback shape.

Regarding the use of resistors and such to tune the LED lights, I would say that's the path I'm headed down, since I would like them for all rear functions, but I can understand how one would want a simpler installation.

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...I have LED "marker lights" in my grill as Daytime Running Lights.....
Was there anything special to hooking these up? Any trimming resistors, or are you running them at the full 12 volts?

Jim.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:08 AM   #100 (permalink)
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LED marker lights

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Originally Posted by 3-Wheeler View Post
Regarding the use of resistors and such to tune the LED lights, I would say that's the path I'm headed down, since I would like them for all rear functions, but I can understand how one would want a simpler installation.
Was there anything special to hooking these up? Any trimming resistors, or are you running them at the full 12 volts?

Jim.

I bought 12V clearance lights in a housing and they require nothing special to hook up and run. They just last longer and draw far less current than filament bulbs. On the brake lights I just swapped bulbs, nothing special. The turn signal circuit has a blinker that requires a certain amp draw to function correctly. This is also lets you know if you have a bulb out because the signal will flash in double time. I am not enough of an electronics guy to know if the resistors (for the turn signal circuit) would negate any savings from running LEDs so I just left them alone. I figure they are not really on that much anyway. LEDs don't tolerate heat well so they should not be used in the same housing as your headlights. HID headlights are suppose to draw less current than halogen bulb headlights for what it's worth.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
The power needed to push an object through a fluid increases as the cube of the velocity. Mechanical friction increases as the square, so increasing speed requires progressively more power.

Last edited by COcyclist; 08-31-2010 at 12:06 PM..
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