Honda releases the Super Cub, Monkey 125's

[Daschicken]

Originally Posted by woodsrat

I mentioned the KYMCO 125cc K-Pipe sold in the U. S. and that it's pricing adjusted to inflation is actually dead on to that of the original 49cc Cub. Add to that the simplicity of the K-Pipe (no F. I. or any of the bells-and-whistles of the Super Cub) and it actually out-Cubs the one that's been announced, the only thing lacking being the underbone-style frame. Definitely something to consider here.

(And no, I'm not a dealer or work for KYMCO, just a satisfied K-Pipe owner.)

It may out-cub the cub, but only in that it is cheap. I would assume fuel injection is more reliable than carbs in the long run. I have had more than my share of carb problems, and when you have 4 carbs to deal with, it just gets that much more fun. Poor fuel economy, incompatibility with CATs, garbage throttle response(or bogging), inability to easily adjust mixture for altitude changes, and they stop working and need to be cleaned if gas is left in them when stored. Yeah....No thanks, i'll continue wishing for fuel injection, but will also remain stuck with carbs because manufacturers refuse to remake the incredible bikes they made in the past.


I didn't end up going to the smoky mountain crawl, my older brother wanted to come with on a ride, and my dad thought that it would be "too far" of a ride for a less experienced rider. I'm sure my coworker will have good coverage of it.

[woodsrat]

Fuel injection may indeed be better with today's less-than-stellar gasoline here in the U. S. (I have a theory that this petrolswill will work okay if blasted into an engine under high pressure but won't work as well with a carburetor, a. k. a. a "controlled leak".)

This being said the VM 22 Mikunis I run on the Lifans in my bikes are only $40 new on eBay and rebuild kits are around $6. These Mikunis are simple as a rock and anyone with a little gumption can take one apart, repair or clean it and have your bike back to an operational state quick and easy, much like the original Cubs. If something in the F. I. system fails on the new Cub you're pretty much looking at a trip to the shop to have a white lab coated technician fix it.

So yeah, a carburetor is more trouble to live with but more economical in the long run after the warranty expires and you have to work on it yourself.

As far as fuel mileage I made a lunch run the other day on my Lifan 125 powered '65 Honda Trail 90 and just bopping along at 35-40 I got 103 MPG. Back at my normal pace of around 50 MPH it dropped to 93 MPG. For the simplicity and ease of repair of this carburetor I'm happy with it's performance and fuel mileage. My K-Pipe is set up the same way.

[jkv357]

I've got a bunch of carbed bikes, and never have any issues. They require that you stay on top of things more, like fresh fuel and draining floatbowls during storage, but they are fine if you do.

F.I. is more precise, and will deliver less emissions and better fuel economy - as long as everything is working properly. If not, ya - it can be a pain.

[woodsrat]

It would be really interesting if a gasoline engineer was a regular visitor here. It wasn't so long ago that you could get a carbureted vehicle to start even with the gas in it smelling like turpentine. Now when it's encountered you're always looking at a flush of the tank and a carb cleaning.

Could it be that gasoline has been reformulated for F. I. vehicles??? If I were a gambler I'd say yes and it's probably less refined than in the days of widespread carburetor use.


Back to a less-costly alternative to the new Super Cub, i. e., the K-Pipe over the past couple of years I've found it's quality easily compares to a Japanese bike from the 70's or 80's. Newer Hondas have a lot of niceties like waterproof electrical connectors and such but all in all after living with it awhile I can say with a degree of confidence that folks who buy one won't be disappointed. As I might have mentioned KYMCO is a bit disappointed in that the bike didn't connect with the youth/beginner market like they'd hoped and is instead selling to old ducks like me.

For anyone wishing for a brand-new Passport like I said other than the lack of the underbone frame I think buyers would find they'd be really happy with it. It has the horsepower and extra cog in the gearbox the Passport lacked with better brakes and tubeless tires. Careful shopping ought to get one for about half of the suggested list of the Super Cub and it has a two year warranty!!!

[Hersbird]

The gas hasn't been changed because of fuel injection, it was mandated to be changed by the EPA for lower emissions. Then manufacturers changed their materials and technologies to best use the only gas that was for sale on a large scale. So a modern carbed engine will run just fine on today's oxygenated gas, but one from 30 years ago may have all kinds of problems. New or old though fuel injection has the ability to self adjust for all kinds of changes it runs into. The carb has some ability, but no where near what a bunch of sensors and a computer can do on the fly.

[woodsrat]

A discussion about the Super Cub that started last October is on ADVrider's "Battle Scooter" forum is going hot and heavy and might provide some interesting viewpoints for you to ponder:

https://www.advrider.com/index.php?t...-c125.1263678/

[niky]

Originally Posted by woodsrat

It would be really interesting if a gasoline engineer was a regular visitor here. It wasn't so long ago that you could get a carbureted vehicle to start even with the gas in it smelling like turpentine. Now when it's encountered you're always looking at a flush of the tank and a carb cleaning.

Could it be that gasoline has been reformulated for F. I. vehicles??? If I were a gambler I'd say yes and it's probably less refined than in the days of widespread carburetor use.


Back to a less-costly alternative to the new Super Cub, i. e., the K-Pipe over the past couple of years I've found it's quality easily compares to a Japanese bike from the 70's or 80's. Newer Hondas have a lot of niceties like waterproof electrical connectors and such but all in all after living with it awhile I can say with a degree of confidence that folks who buy one won't be disappointed. As I might have mentioned KYMCO is a bit disappointed in that the bike didn't connect with the youth/beginner market like they'd hoped and is instead selling to old ducks like me.

For anyone wishing for a brand-new Passport like I said other than the lack of the underbone frame I think buyers would find they'd be really happy with it. It has the horsepower and extra cog in the gearbox the Passport lacked with better brakes and tubeless tires. Careful shopping ought to get one for about half of the suggested list of the Super Cub and it has a two year warranty!!!

It's faintly surprising to find that all motorbikes cost more there than here... typically, cars here cost more than in the USA. The K-Pipe costs some $500 or more less here.

Kymco is a good brand. Much better build quality than mainland Chinese bikes (It's Taiwanese, I believe) and it has a good following around Asia.

Particularly fond of the Super 8 and the Like. But we don't get the 200cc variant you guys do. Still, a very pretty Vespa-like for a whole lot less money.

[elhigh]

I'm almost as upset about the pricing as the rest of you guys but there's one important difference: I couldn't afford a Cub back then, not even a used one. I can easily afford a new one now, and I think it's people like that that they're aiming this bike at: an entry level ride with real world utility for nostalgic newbies with money.

Woodsrat made the point about Kymco selling bikes to a different demographic than intended, I think with this pricing we're seeing Honda fully aware of which demographic they're going to resonate with.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by samwichse

what's the difference between the monkey and the grom? They look like two bikes with the same engine in the same segment???

It looks like the Monkey is a little more off-road capable, while the Grom is definitely more street-oriented.

Originally Posted by elhigh

I'm almost as upset about the pricing as the rest of you guys but there's one important difference: I couldn't afford a Cub back then, not even a used one. I can easily afford a new one now, and I think it's people like that that they're aiming this bike at: an entry level ride with real world utility for nostalgic newbies with money.

Much like the Fiat 500 and the Mini, or the VW New Beetle, they're not really meant to be the most affordable contenders in an entry-level segment.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by niky

It's faintly surprising to find that all motorbikes cost more there than here... typically, cars here cost more than in the USA. The K-Pipe costs some $500 or more less here.

I wouldn't be surprised in the Philippines buys more motorcycles per year than the USA. Motorcycles are a small niche in the USA, only about 1% of the population rides motorcycles and we only buy about 500,000 motorcycles per year. About 1/4 of those of off-road and scooter sales are less than 75,000 per year.

So small bikes and scooter cost more here because they sell is very low volumes. Large bikes (greater than 600cc) are the bulk of sales in the USA and they tend to sell for less than the rest of the world.