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Old 08-24-2010, 06:54 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Its good to see your progress over several threads and on the wiki, your certainly modding faster than I can and getting some good ABA data out of your mods.

In replying to your request for more mod ideas if your still looking for ideas.

Can you provide more info about your regular trips and how well your car does at the moment in different modes. I figure there are several different modes for fuel usage and all have different influences from different mods
- acceleration (weight has big impact, aero mods don’t)
- cruising (aero mods have big impact, weight almost no impact)
- idling (engine size, parasitic parts (drive belts head lights ..) have big impact, weight and aero no impact)
- Cold start (engine size, cold idle control big impact, weight, aero zero impact)

If you give a bit of an idea of how much fuel your car uses under these conditions it might help pic some good mods for you.
- Cruising is just MPG at a speed
- acceleration can be fuel used over accelerating from 0 to xxx mph (averaged over a few) Note: you can also test different accelerating rates, I found if I accelerating slow car uses same fuel as accelerating fast
- idling, how much fuel does your car use when idling after its warmed up
- cold start, when your car hasn't been used over night how much fuel does it use when warming up. Test by turning it on sitting idling in your drive way until it reaches temperature then compare to warm idling fuel used over same time.

If you give this info the group may be able to suggest the best mod for you also I bet you will have some great ideas yourself after you do those tests.

Those tests might take a bit of time so if you just want suggestions I think you might want to concentrate on your engine now that you have done most of the easy aero mods.
Things I am thinking are
- reduce idle
- cold idle reduction (gave me large improvements but may have been specific to my car)
- sensor fooling, run the car leaner give better efficiency (if you have a high range 02 sensor)
- If you have an automatic, try making it a manumatic which gives you control of gear selection and torque converter lockup
- remove parasitic engine loads. Reduce electrical loads, reduce drive belts such as power steering (that is an relatively easy mod if you don’t stuff it up like I did) AC belt removal.

That is all I can quickly think of without knowing more about your specific car


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Old 08-24-2010, 07:28 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I am getting a lot of mods done because I am a unemployed collage grad. I also do the testing to prove to myself (and others) if the mod is worth it or not. That is also why I do the Wiki, good quick page to look over for ideas and gain possibilities.

Right now my trips are one of two things:
1. run into town (6-8 miles away depending on which way I go). this is a cold start up to 55MPH for the 6 or so miles, then 35 MPH in town.

2. Long trips (over 3 hours). These trips contain 50/50 55MPH and 70MPH speed limits (I do 55-60 in the 70, min is 55).

My car: 2006 Toyota Matrix, 1.8L manual (I made sure to get one). I know it has a rich warm up setting (for emissions) but this is ECU controlled (engine temp based I think). I have read of people trying to fool this setting but no one has done so to my knowledge. I want to make a lower grill block that is open-able (from the drivers seat) but I am not sure how yet (I am thinking about it).

I also found that doing a fast start up is about the same as a slow on (I try for 70-80% load).

I have looked at removing the power steering pump, but it is on the same belt as the AC and alternator. Unless I go no alternator I can not remove it. I have been reducing my electrical loads, DRLs gone (first mod I did 3 years ago), HIDs for my low beams (35 watts each instead of 55). I might put in LED bulbs but the payback is out past forever.

I do idle when coasting but I am not fond of cycling the ECU all the time. Also having it idle keeps the SG on, gives me more reaction options (safer). when coasting the idle is only using .25 GPH of gas, steady 55MPH is 1 to 1.2 GPH.

What tests would help me here? I think I am pushing what I can do.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:29 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Looks like your using your free time well, I am employed but still look on the forums while im at work but hard to do mods while im working though.

As for your rich warm up, this may well be worth looking into. I had initially thought mine was ECU controlled so I had 2 ideas of how to "fix" it they are
- Interrupt the idle control valve signal (this is just a pulsed 12v signal that gives variable voltage to the solenoid in the idle control valve) I was going to make a circuit that could give a variable voltage signal based on a control knob. Have this switched in instead of the ECU control signal by a switch on the dash board. This would have been a relatively easy mod for me since im an electrical engineer, not sure of your background but id be happy to guide you through making this if your interested
- The other option was to "fool" the ECU by interrupting or influencing the signals from the temperature sensors this would involve finding the signal for temperature and check the voltage when car is at temperature then check when cold and add a resistance or voltage that could be switched in or controlled by a control knob setting in the cabin. Only issue with this is that your scangauge may go a bit crazy, I don’t have one so I don’t know how sensitive they are.

If you want to see the benefit you will get out of "fooling" your ECU I recommend doing a run into town when the engine is cold and a run into town when the engine is hot and compare the fuel used. This will tell you if its worthwhile
For me it saved at a guess about 10 or 20% off my short trip to work

regarding your PS pump and alternator and AC, if you think you might not use the PS and the AC you might make some good savings in efficiency if you change the belt length so only the alternator runs on it. If your alternator does not have the screw to set the tension of the pull you may need to use an tensioner wheel which could be a bit of work. On my car the AC was the tensioner on the PS and AC belt. If your AC is the tensioner then you might be able to remove your PS pump from that belt and change the belt size.
Maybe a more mechanically inclined person can give you ideas on that one.

Ill have to digest those numbers a little bit more later and compare to mine. If you can idle lower then you will make a saving when coasting and when in town at traffic lights. have a read of the wiki I set up on car idle reduction if your interested.

Ill have a bit more of a think for other tests you can do.
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:22 AM   #54 (permalink)
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As for fooling the ECU, I might be interested in trying it, but I will have to be able to adjust it as winter up here gets cold, regularly down to 10F and will hit -20F most winters (not sure what that is in C). As far as my EE knowledge, I can wire things up and do some soldering. I understand most of the basic ideas involving electricity. Once you get to circuit boards you loose me (I grasp big things like power plants and sub stations). Little green things do things that I need, but how it happens, I have not a clue. If you give me a wiring diagram I can follow it but the circuit boards are just boxes with an input and output.

The ScanGauge reads out the data from the CAN bus, so what ever the ECU thinks the temp is that will be what is reported. there might be a way to use the SG to fool the ECU, it can send stuff to it (how I do not know).

How much benefit will fooling the ECU be if I run a grill block (upper and lower)?

As for my PS, AC, & alternator, they are all on the same belt with an independent tensioner. I would need a very interesting set up to remove these.

The AC has a clutch on it (electric) could I make one for the PS? that way it is off but when I am doing a corner (or in a parking lot) I can power it up? this way I could leave it hooked up but choose when to use it.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:04 AM   #55 (permalink)
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I guess you could make one for your PS but I would think that would be a lot of effort and I have no idea how to go about that myself. You might be able to effectively do that using a large valve which would connect the input and output of the PS pump so that it doesn't feel a back pressure and therefore doesn't take as much energy from the engine. Not sure how effective it would be though.
I thought I would need my PS for cornering but after a day of driving without PS I didn't even notice it and now I get into other peoples cars and think I will put the wheels at right angles to the car direction when I turn.
If you take a picture of your belt arrangement or a picture from a workshop manual or a diagram or something like that someone might be able to suggest how you can remove the PS and / or alternator from the belt.

As for setting the temp with the scangauge I have no idea since I don’t have one myself. If your temperature sensor is a resistive sensor you could connect a variable resistor to the circuit which would allow you to change the resistance and therefore the temperature the ECU sees. you could probably see the effect on the scangauge so you can set the temperature seen that way. Maybe look through the threads here, I have heard some people trying this otherwise google, I know its been done before.

I don’t think I have seen any posts from you about a belly pan, this will give you some improvement. According to metrompg its 2.2% I think. Its a bit of effort but still a gain.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:30 AM   #56 (permalink)
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I will see about the belt pics, As for the belly pan, I have one going to the back side of the engine. I was just a lurker at that point so no thread.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:45 AM   #57 (permalink)
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my belly pan thread (and Doax's) :
03 Matrix Mpg Build Thread - Toyota Matrix Owners Forum
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Old 08-25-2010, 12:56 PM   #58 (permalink)
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That's the belt setup for an 06 vibe ( matrix should be the same )
Indeed would be interesting to modify!
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Old 08-25-2010, 01:03 PM   #59 (permalink)
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that is what I was looking for. The PS is the left most pulley. AC is bottom right. Drive is bottom middle. alternator is top right. Middle left is the tentioner. middle right is just an idler / routing pulley.

Ideas on reversible no AC & PS leaving the alternator working?
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Old 08-28-2010, 06:17 PM   #60 (permalink)
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The picture is now complete:


I have 3 more stickers, where should I put them?

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