How the Prius wastes fuel

[EVmetro]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

All that was needed to be said has been said, so now I unsubscribe from this thread.

I really dislike subscribing to threads, but sometimes I find that I have inadvertently done so. Either way, I make sure to unsubscribe to threads once I figure out that I have subscribed to it. Although I really don't like to be subscribed to threads, I have never unsubscribed to a thread because I did not like the content of it. I have learned so much from people who I disagree with or don't like, that I would be imposing ignorance upon myself if I did.

[EVmetro]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

That could well be.

But it's time to invoke Sagan:

You're the one who made an extraordinary claim, and that requires extraordinary evidence, not anecdotes and bias-confirming personal observations.

EDIT: FYI, I'd be perfectly willing to accept that Prius drivers are somehow more disruptive than average... with proper evidence.

I enjoyed the subtle implication of skepticism. I am not aware of any documented evidence that proves or disproves the observations that I have presented. However, after all the eco people jumped in on this thread to defend their confirmation bias in favor of the Prius, I did google "slow prius driver" and found that far more people than I had originally assumed have made similar observations. All I do is take note of what kind of vehicle is interrupting smooth traffic flow, and study my instrumentation to get an idea of how many watt hours are wasted during the event. My primary research is only related to kinetic energy of automobiles, particularly with how much of it is wasted with various regen configurations on EVs, and the fact that the Prius is the most frequent disruption is something that I have no control of. It just is. Perhaps it is different in your area, but from what I have googled, it appears to be a widespread problem.

[Ecky]

Would it be fair to say that non-Priuses waste fuel, too? In your area, non-Priuses drive faster than Priuses, so not only are they wasting fuel when they come upon a perfectly reasonable Prius, but they're also wasting fuel barreling down the highway at excessive speeds even when no Prius is around.

Seems equally valid to me.

[EVmetro]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Would it be fair to say that non-Priuses waste fuel, too?

Oh yes! The Prius is just the most common for creating the kinetic ripple. I see many other vehicles doing the same thing. Not every Prius is an offender either. I am one of folks who drives like a jerk, and I have come across Prii that I can't hang with. Those things can be pretty quick.

[pgfpro]

One thing I have learned with my Honda Insight more then ever is to look way ahead. The same goes with road racing etc. The Insight is a car that you really notice everything when it comes to traffic flow and aero drafting etc.

A great lesson a good friend gave me is to "control the controlables".
So in a case where I come up on a type of driver that your describing I will hopefully see them far enough ahead that it will not disrupt my fuel mileage(no braking).

Then when I get closer behind them I will get in the slower lane and give plenty of room to the people that will be fighting this driver until they eventually move over to the slow lane where then I can pass legally and safely.

One other question to you is how much on the average are you seeing in a loss of watt efficiency when you come across someone is this situation? I would think it would amount to very little? I'm not sure because I don't have a EV but with my Insight based on a high 600miles per tank I don't even think it would be a loss of .5 gallon mpg???

[EVmetro]

Originally Posted by pgfpro

One thing I have learned with my Honda Insight more then ever is to look way ahead. The same goes with road racing etc. The Insight is a car that you really notice everything when it comes to traffic flow and aero drafting etc.

A great lesson a good friend gave me is to "control the controlables".
So in a case where I come up on a type of driver that your describing I will hopefully see them far enough ahead that it will not disrupt my fuel mileage(no braking).

Then when I get closer behind them I will get in the slower lane and give plenty of room to the people that will be fighting this driver until they eventually move over to the slow lane where then I can pass legally and safely.

One other question to you is how much on the average are you seeing in a loss of watt efficiency when you come across someone is this situation? I would think it would amount to very little? I'm not sure because I don't have a EV but with my Insight based on a high 600miles per tank I don't even think it would be a loss of .5 gallon mpg???

The energy lost due to having to slow down and the speed back up varies, but it is actually very small. Since I am driving a super efficient EV, it is trivial. The loss is only a couple watt hours. Where the loss adds up to something significant is when you look at the steady stream of other vehicles that have to slow down and then speed up. With my research, I am focused on figuring out how much energy is lost to inopportune regen events that result from the off throttle regen configurations that manufactured and DIY EVs use, so I average my energy usage over the same routes over and over, and compare different regen configuration averages. I have found that I can increase my efficiency from 10% to 20%, depending on road conditions, when kinetic energy and regen is properly managed and off throttle regen is not used. Eco drivers or drivers who create conditions that interrupt the consistency of my speed only account for less than 1% of the kinetic energy interruption cycles that occur on my test routes. If I become the disrupter myself, the other offenders do not effect me at all.

[sendler]

I've never come across ANY Prius going slower than traffic although there are quite a high percentage on the road in my area. But do get passed by quite a few every day on my way to work. In my experience singling out one model of car is completely innacurate. Take the same poll in California where EV adoption is high and I'm sure you will hear that if there is a slow car disrupting traffic, it will be a range anxious EV.

[Hersbird]

I think a couple things are at play here. First Prius drivers are guilty of being obnoxious hypermilers which is what was first pointed out. That may help you save gas but in the overall big picture actually contributes to wasting more gas then if you just did what everybody else was doing. Not only Prius drivers are at fault, everybody needs to do their part to make driving a better experience and very few people seem to want to help. That brings us to a 2nd part. Prius are very unique looking so they tend to get noticed whatever dumb thing they are doing. 3rd Prius drivers seem to be a little sensitive of these facts, maybe they are just more sensitive people in general. (Just teasing)

[Fat Charlie]

Originally Posted by EVmetro

Where the loss adds up to something significant is when you look at the steady stream of other vehicles that have to slow down and then speed up.

So having an entire population incapable of seeing things more than 10 feet away from their front bumper is inefficient.

[Frank Lee]

Who knew?

Perhaps steady throttling will be the upside to autonomous cars, even though the very notion of them totally rubs me the wrong way.